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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#6676: Jan 8th 2013 at 6:39:07 PM

[up]If that's typical for the series, then they should likely all be axed.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6677: Jan 8th 2013 at 7:06:26 PM

@ Hamburger Time

Lono doesn't give a fuck about Victor at all and is willing to kill or see him die along with everyone else.

@ Shaoken

I don't see how that's much different from Star Wars with mot of the video games being canon to the setting and sharing characters. The games are still separate media and one shouldn't be forced to be familiar with all the media before they can qualify characters in there

edited 8th Jan '13 7:51:43 PM by Lightysnake

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#6678: Jan 8th 2013 at 7:57:06 PM

@6589: I’d vote for Vul Isen since he seems to take sadistic delight in his actions.

@6601: Admittedly your arguments on Setme are beginning to sway me. Since the Mind Rape is presented as a truly painful/traumatizing thing and Child Soldiers are shown to be deployed… then I’ll switch my vote to a keep. Provided Lubikka’s shown wiping out civilian colonies and ordering no survivors, then I would switch my vote for him too. Both entries would need to be rewritten though.

@6626: I’m nearly positive The Godfather examples were brought up before. Anyway, I vote to cut all of them except Don Ciccio.

@6641: Since Shion is being affected by a Hate Plague her moral agency is called into question, then I believe that she shouldn’t count as a Complete Monster based on crimes she perpetrated under the plague’s influence.

@6660: For the Robo Cop examples: barring new info, it sounds like Mc Dagget counts. He had me at death camp. I’d cut Morton and Fax based on those entries. They fail the heinous standard by a lot when compared with Mc Dagget.

@6662: Yes, you’re right, cut all those Super Robot Wars examples. They rely completely on viewer familiarity with the anime series instead of providing crimes they did in the actual games.

@6667: Haven’t read it but if Deadpool was brainwashed into being that way by Psycho-Man, then it sounds like he wouldn’t have moral agency and wouldn’t count.

@6669: Who’s Lono and what does he do?

@6645: Re: Inuyasha: We only keep CM subpages if they have at least 3 examples. With the current votes, only Naraku is the one with enough votes to be kept. His rewrite would have to go on the main Anime & Manga page, and the current Monster.Inuyasha page would go to the Cut List. Here are the total votes for the Inuyasha examples:

  • Naraku: Votes For 6 (Klavice @6494, lightysnake @6509, Largo Quagmire @6541, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544, Ambar son of Deshar @6568), Votes Against 1 (32 Footsteps @6579 (though I’m not sure if that still stands now that Naraku’s been proven as a single entity)).
  • Hakudoshi: Votes For 1 (lightysnake @6509), Votes Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Akago: Votes For 0, Votes On-The-Fence 1 (Nocturna @6544), Votes Against 3 (Klavice @6494, lightysnake @6509, Occasional Exister)
  • Goshinki: Votes For 0, Votes On-The-Fence 1 (lightysnake @6509), Votes Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Fake Water God: For 0, Against 4 (Klavice @6494, lightysnake @6509, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Bat Youkai: For 1 (lightysnake @6509), Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Ancient Noh Mask: For 0, Against 4 (Klavice @6494, lightysnake @6509, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Magatsuhi: For 0, On-the-Fence 1 (lightysnake @6509), Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Tokajin: For 1 (lightysnake @6509), Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)
  • Mukotsu: For 0, On-The-Fence 3 (lightysnake @6509, Klavice @6494, Nocturna @6544), Against 3 (lightysnake @6509, Ambar son of Deshar @6568)
  • Suikotsu: For 0, Against 3 (Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544, Ambar son of Deshar @6568)
  • Spider Head Leader: For 0, Against 3 (Klavice @6494, Occasional Exister, Nocturna @6544)

If I’ve gotten anybody’s votes wrong, please tell me and I’ll correct it. I’ve changed my vote on Mukotsu based on Ambar’s info @6568. If Mukotsu cares about his team members then he shouldn’t count. Also, I’ve rethought Tokajin and decided that I don’t think he counts. Tokajin may be unique in being a human, but I’m not sure he’d be any more heinous if he was a demon and had more power since he acts a lot like most demons already do.

Also, a new entry’s been added to the Inuyasha page: Gatenmaru. He sounds like the typical Inuyasha villain. He destroys a village and eats people. I'd say cut.

Regardless Klavice, I think you have enough votes to cut the page and have Naraku added to the Monster.AnimeAndManga page, though I’d advise waiting a day or two to see if there are any objections.

edited 8th Jan '13 8:04:30 PM by OccasionalExister

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6679: Jan 8th 2013 at 8:00:41 PM

[up] Lono's a hitman who enjoys lots and lots of rape and torture on the side, mostly on-panel. He once tortured a man (admittedly, one of the villains) by chopping off his testicles and stepping on them while he watched. Then he skinned the guy alive. I brought him up because there seems to be, in the parts I read, a character he regards as a genuine friend, but Lightysnake says he was okay with killing him at another point I haven't read yet

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#6680: Jan 8th 2013 at 8:12:26 PM

@ Lightysnake, yes one should be forced to do their homework before counting someone on this trope.

"The character is truly heinous by the standards of the story"

We didn't include Nihilus just for the game he was in, he counts even when compared against other Star Wars C Ms. There is no argument as to why we should split up the same continuities into different sections when determining wether or not one is Truly Henious, that would be like arguing we should have to break up Harry Potter or A Song Of Ice And Fire into their individual books for determining who is truly henious. It just doesn't make any cohessive sense to treat two different works in the same continuity as being seperate just because one is a book and one is a video game.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6681: Jan 8th 2013 at 8:31:09 PM

How much does one have to go through before they get the story? Azariah Kyras is heinous by the standards of Dawn of War's story. Asking more strikes me as unreasonable. Nihilus is an example who's almost arguable if not for the rest of the expanded universe, and even then I'd only compare him to other Sith Lords or those in the Old Republic franchise.

Comparisons to Harry Potter and ASOIAF aren't that great because Warhammer and Star Wars have become massive multimedia franchises with multiple video games, books, etc, whereas the former two are linear book series intended to be read in order.

Obviously there needs to be some kind of harmony to the examples, but there are plenty Star Wars stories that don't cover the cosmic importance a game featuring Nihilus has to have by default, with characters who meet every point of a CM for those works. I don't like the idea of disqualifying someone like Durge, Montross or Demagol because an unrelated video game in the same universe has Nihilus

edited 8th Jan '13 8:37:41 PM by Lightysnake

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#6682: Jan 8th 2013 at 8:44:38 PM

Any comments on the proposed Air Gear examples back on post 6661?

To add my votes, having seen the show/manga I'm all for cutting Nike and keeping Sora.

Nike is more of a general Psycho for Hire asshole than a true monster while his brother Sora is more outright manipulative.

My only complaint is he sort of has a Freudian Excuse. And it's a very minor one.

He got into an accident and lost the use of his legs, yet it doesn't stop him from being extremely reprehensible.

He's kind of like Kristoph Gavin in a wheelchair. He does actively try to kill the heroes from what I know and that's not a staple of Air Gear. There's some psychotic characters, but none go to Sora's lengths.

RetroFriday Since: Mar, 2011
#6683: Jan 8th 2013 at 8:50:38 PM

If it's quite possible, I wish to nominate Dr. Edward Bilstein of Star Gladiator in being a Complete Monster. The sheer malice and atrocities that Bilstein had made throughout the series could potentially have him qualify for this trope. To explain his malevolent actions:

-He kidnaps the family of Franco Gerelt and threatens to kill them unless Gerelt does exactly what Bilstein says, forcing Gerelt into becoming a reluctant member of the Fourth Empire. If that's not bad enough, Bilstein also implants a bomb inside Gerelt's chest and threatens to blow him up if Gerelt tries to rebel against him.

-He had kidnapped the father of June Lin Milliam and had experimented/transformed him into a plasma-wielding dinosaur named Rimgal, hoping to use him as a feral and vicious killing machine. In the end, Rimgal is forced to kill himself in order to ensure that he doesn't end up killing his daughter and her friends.

-He had killed the parents of Blood Barbarians and had kidnapped him, enslaving him as his personal fighting champion while brainwashing him under his control so that he could harness and experiment on his high Plasma Power potential. Blood is able to break free from the brainwashing, but is quite shocked and disgusted to learn of what he had done while under Bilstein's control.

-He isn't exactly a nice boss to his minions and that he only sees them as pawns, planning to enslave and use their Plasma Power to help power up his ultimate weapon once the time comes and that they had outlived their own usefulness.

-Finally, he intends to use his own daughter Rain as a guinea pig in which he wants to impregnate her with the DNA of various male Plasma fighters and make her become the mother of "New Human Beings": people who would have unfathomable and unparalleled Plasma Power so that Bilstein would easily be able to conquer the entire galaxy.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#6684: Jan 8th 2013 at 9:08:17 PM

@Lightysnake, they go through all of it.

And you again miss the point of scale; Nihlus is a CM because he operates on a cosmic scale, Durge operates on a smaller scale, etc. etc.

But Dawn Of War fits in too perfectly, is referenced by too many Black Library novels and crosses over with too many 40k characters to try and say it's in it's own self-contained bubble.

I mean it has Abbaddon the Defieler as a character in it, and he's more henious than any other Chaos character in both games.

And so what if this causes characters to be cut, that's what we're aiming for. This is a very exclusive trope, having a lot of characters from the same continuity defeats the point.

edited 8th Jan '13 9:22:17 PM by Shaoken

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6685: Jan 8th 2013 at 9:31:24 PM

What we're aiming for should not be to cut valid examples if they meet the criteria (Heinous by story standard,hated/feared within story, no attempt at positive light or traits). Star Wars is a franchise decades old with stories from every possible facet of media, and stories ranging from small scale to cosmic. Characters should be judged on basis of the story they appear in unless they look utterly middling in comparison to others. Durge was already discussed in this thread and ruled to qualify with flying colors.

Star Wars has literally hundreds of villains given how long the EU has been around. For a small percentage of them to be C Ms doesn't diminish the trope in the slightest to my eyes.

The fact that Dawn Of War ties in immensely doesn't strike me as any more relevant than Baldur's Gate or Vampire the Masquare Bloodlines doing the same, or featuring canon characters. Unless Abaddon is obliterating worlds in Do W, then it's still just his reputation there. Dawn of War is meant to be picked up and played by anyone, so I feel comfortable judging it on its own merits, just like I would the other games mentioned.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#6686: Jan 8th 2013 at 9:49:58 PM

[up]You keep bringing up Star Wars, but you haven't actually stated one villian who would have been cut if we linked the Video Games with the Books and the Cartoons. Wait, I can think of one: General Grevious, who we already cut from the Cartoons because the book made it clear he lacked moral agency.

Dawn Of War fits perfectly into established canon, you have no argument as to why we should treat it as a stand alone. "It's meant to be picked up and played by anyone," what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The Clone Wars CGI is meant to be picked up and watched by anyone irrelevant of Clone Wars (the traditionally animated and much earlier series) or the books all featuring the same characters, yet all three take place in the same storyline, so why seperate them?

Fuck, why stop there? Of all the James Bond films, only Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace are meant to be connected to each other, so why bother comparing the villians in each? Sherlock Holmes had a long series of books, of which only two were directly related to each other, so why not have them judged on their own merits?

Honestly, can you give me one decent argument as to why Dawn Of War should be treated as it's own continuity when, unlike Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines, fits perfectly within the established canon and is referenced by other works in different mediums?

edited 8th Jan '13 9:54:31 PM by Shaoken

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6687: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:06:36 PM

[up] Well, if you want to get technical, the first seven Bond movies, except for Goldfinger, are all linked by the SPECTRE Myth Arc. I actually suspect that's what they're trying to do with the Craig films, right down to the unconnected third movie's villain being named after a precious metal, but that's neither here nor there.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:06:51 PM by HamburgerTime

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#6688: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:12:28 PM

The argument regarding Dawn Of War is not so much about alternate continuity as it is based on HOW Dawn Of War treats the 40k story. A LOT of the grim darkness is toned down in those games compared to the base material (appears to be Lighter and Softer while still being quite brutal).

When regarding Kyras, let's compare him to Araghast the Pillager. Both seek to wreck havoc and mass destruction across mass numbers of worlds. The difference here is in HOW they do it (or plan to do with in Kyras' case). Kyras' method is much more horrific than Araghast (or any other Chaos Lord in any of Relic's 40k games for that manner) ever get. Personally, I'd rate Kyras to be about as heinous as Abbadon, a guy who (along with Vect) is a valid candidate for Complete Monster.

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#6689: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:18:58 PM

[up]You could make a similar argument against Ciphas Cain and how it treats the 40k universe as well, but it's still within the same canon.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#6690: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:22:18 PM

Even if Dawn of War fits canon well, the question about how dark it is, is a good one. If the story is less grimdark then the tabletop game, as the post two above me seems to indicate, then there is a problem in determining how heinous the character needs to be. Question: how much lighter is it and in what way? I'd like to contribute to this discussion, but have little to say.

On an unrelated note, since there seems to be little support for creating a separate page for Myth and Religion, I will simply add Tantalus and Angra Mainyu, both of whom appear in literary works (Apollodorus' Library and the Avedas respectively) to the literature page, in the same way that we had already added Haman. I'll keep the sandbox I started around, just in case we ever decide we need it.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:34:03 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#6691: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:26:26 PM

I'm not really familiar with the games in question either, but one thing I should note that complicates the issue is that the grimdark in Warhammer 40,000 has always (or at least for most of its history) been borderline self-parody as it is. So I think it's harder to determine how "dark" the games are in comparison to most of the series than it's being made out to be.

The fact that the aforementioned Cain books - a borderline affectionate self-parody - are in continuity in the first place ought to be enough proof of that.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:28:19 PM by nrjxll

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6692: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:28:43 PM

From what I understand, WH $0K was always meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, but a lot of writers didn't get the joke.

Should we put, say, Lijah Cuu from Gaunts Ghosts on the block? He in heinous by the standard of the story he appears in, but...

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6693: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:28:49 PM

[up][up][up] I wouldn't be entirely against a mythology page, but it'd need to be pretty heavily policed to catch people like that guy who added Old Testament God to the Literature page about eight times a while back. All these pages would stay locked, right?

edited 8th Jan '13 10:29:26 PM by HamburgerTime

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#6694: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:29:47 PM

Yeah, I'd support a myth and religion page honestly if we could police it. We have enough good qualifiers in Tantalus, Apophis, Lamashtu, Haman, etc

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#6695: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:36:43 PM

[up][up]My plan was to create the page, then lock the damn thing. That's why I undertook this effort in the first place. That way we'd have all the really controversial examples in one place, and anybody who wants to change them has to come through us. I confess that thing about Old Testament god is kind of amusing to me, if only because I've used his violent tendencies to explain why everyone who isn't Haman was cut.

Anyway, since there's at least a little more support for the idea then I thought there was, let me address some concerns of those who have been lukewarm about the idea. First of all, I'm not suggesting we use apocrypha, oral myth, etc. Just the versions that were written down somewhere, by somebody. If somebody only counts in one version, we'll specify the version. As for fears about controversy, we've already done the big one, with The Bible/Torah. If there are other concerns, please bring them up.

On another topic, we have a problem. Somebody completely reorganised the literature page; I think alphabetically, but I'm not sure. Anyway, it's caused me to note some bad examples.

I'm getting Hero Killer and He-Man Woman Hater from this one, but I don't know. Anybody here actually read the books?

  • In Carlton Mellick III's Apeshit, there are background characters never seen in the actual story proper and only mentioned. The first we know of Dan, Stephanie's big brother, gives an image of a deadbeat, unpleasant loser tired of his life that goes nowhere, although he's mentioned to have been on relatively good terms with the six main characters at some point before his life started going all downhill, probably through some fault of his own, although this is left ambiguous. Readers soon find out that Stephanie is pregnant. This has happened by Dan repeatedly forcing himself on her for a long time and, despite Stephanie's requests, refusing to use a condom, because he finds it more exciting that way. To pass time and coerce her to have sex with him, he would also torture Stephanie, among other things burn marks on her with a cigarette and throw ants on her. Stephanie, being 17 and needing a parent's permission for an abortion, has to turn to her mother. A Christian fundamentalist, Stephanie's mother brushes off her telling about Dan having impregnated her by rape by dismissively claiming it's still God's child and aborting it would be wrong. Dan only gets excited at the thought of being able to keep Stephanie as his wife forever. Stephanie may consider herself lucky despite being forever stuck inside the forest, physically damaged and not being able to leave it without dying.

I smell offscreen villainy. Easy cut.

  • Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series has two:
    • Lord Holder Fax gets double kudos as something of a Magnificent Bastard as well, as he managed to gain control of seven Holds through various means, mostly conquest. One Hold, however, he 'won' by marrying into the leadership ... and then doing his level best to kill his Lady wife via childbirth. He also had zero problems with killing every man, woman, and child even suspected of having Ruathan blood in his bid to gain supremacy over that Hold. It's also heavily implied that he if not outright raped, then stole and coerced every half-pretty female in his jurisdiction that he could get his hands on.
    • Lord Holder Chalkin though, takes the cake. The bastard had a jail area that was more or less like a freezer, with small 'cells' cut into rock, all of them cold and damp. Into which he threw anyone that pissed him off in the slightest. A servant spilled a container of sugar and got TWO WEEKS in one of these cramped, cold cells. People were frequently kept in the cells until they died of the cold and damp, and their bodies were thrown into a lime pit, rather than given whatever passed for a normal burial. He was also heavily 'tithing' his peoples' produce, whether it was food or textiles or what have you, to the point of forcing his people to starve and work themselves to death in an effort to please him while he wallowed in an excess of supplies of all kinds.
    • Ma'ar/Mornelithe Falconsbane, however, takes the cake. He started off as being a Well-Intentioned Extremist, but quickly became the Big Bad, and the final showdown between him and the Big Good Urtho caused the Cataclysm, which was so powerful that it actually echoed through time. Though defeated, he didn't actually die, as he had set up a Grand Theft Me so that he could take over the body of any his descendants once they started showing signs of magical ability, most often when they tried to call up fire. Falconsbane kept doing this over the centuries until finally the main characters in the Mage Winds trilogy figured out what was going on and destroyed him.

Stop saying people take the cake for one thing. Also, that's three examples. Moving on, it sounds like we're dealing with escalating villains here. Who counts, who doesn't?

edited 8th Jan '13 10:41:13 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6696: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:38:46 PM

[up][up] Also, we'd need to make sure the figure is regarded as an utter scumbag in all versions of the story; Apep and Ahriman fit this (there were some foreign Pharaohs who venerated Apep, but mostly just to terrify the native people into submission), probably Tantalus too. I think I have heard of some commentators who actually see a Freudian Excuse for Haman, though.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:39:26 PM by HamburgerTime

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#6697: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:39:04 PM

I've also read that 40k is intended to be a Stealth Parody of dark sci-fi. Parody as in "there's no way in hell you could possibly make a setting any more brutal, nightmarish, and awful as this one even if you tried."

As for the question comparing Dawn Of War to the base universe, much of the really nasty Nightmare Fuel aspects (and there is A LOT of that to go around) of the 40k fluff are basically swept under the rug, leaving a game setting with just a perpetual and uber brutal war. The Blood Ravens characters are often either Type 3 or Type 4 antiheroes.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:41:23 PM by magnum12

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#6698: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:43:16 PM

[up][up]That excuse isn't present in The Bible though. So long as we specify that we are referring to the version of Haman presented in The Bible proper, I don't think it should be an overriding concern. For examples that are bad across the board (Apophis/Apep, Ahirman/Angra Mainyu), I suspect we can treat them like the comic book page. Am now adding Apophis to the sandbox.

EDIT: If anything, someone using threats of Apophis to terrify locals, is more a point for then against.

edited 8th Jan '13 10:43:59 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#6699: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:48:08 PM

[up] Yeah, the excuse does border on Wild Mass Guessingboring stuff

. I'm comfortable adding him. I mean, freaking Veggie Tales played the dude straight.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#6700: Jan 8th 2013 at 10:53:55 PM

[up]I actually knew some of that, from back when we had the initial discussion on Haman. Thanks for posting it though; it'll be good to have it here, in the forum, and easily accessible if the situation ever arrises again.

Here's the current sandbox for those who are interested: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/CompleteMonsterMythologyAndReligion

And please, if anyone has an example, feel free to bring it up. I'd love to get any plausible examples up before I launch, and hopefully lock, the page.


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