During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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He's the Big Bad, so the heinous standard isn't an issue. He also tries to kill one of his relatives, which sends him beyond generic slasher for me.
edited 30th Aug '16 10:11:43 AM by DemonDuckofDoom
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Castle needs two more before that can happen though I thought. It has three now since LokSat is imminent. There's also Scream which has four with one of them being imminent, but that also needs a fifth first if I'm not mistaken.
There's also RoboCop if the 2014 remake and/or the animated show provides at least one more candidate and Harry Potter if Fantastic Beasts has one.
edited 30th Aug '16 10:19:31 AM by futuremoviewriter
At least 5; like I said though, it's entirely possible that they could. Teen Wolf has 5 already; Ripper Street has 3 (plus a 4th with this week's batch) and more seem likely; Tokyo Ghoul has 2, plus that Mad Scientist, and I think Lighty had 2 OTHERS on his watchlist. And some current pages still need quotes (any good ones for Dance In The Vampire Bund?),
edited 30th Aug '16 10:20:06 AM by ACW
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Now that I think about it, did anyone ever discuss anyone from Robocop outside of the initial three films?
On the subject of making subpages, am I the only one who thinks people are getting a bit too obsessed with creating those? I mean, some make sense, like the DC Universe Animated Original Movies, but when a work only has three-four Monsters, it just seems unnecessary to already be talking about creating a page for them.
Why so serious?
I...can get a bit carried away. Interestingly, the decision was I think no to a DC Universe Animated Original Movies subpage.
Speaking of DC (the comics this time), I remember they were talking about doing 3 Jokers now. Has anyone been following that?
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I agree. I prefer if we wait until there's well over five CMs from some kind of series, and then we talk about making subpages. Right now Teen Wolf seems like the only likely candidate.
edited 30th Aug '16 10:32:24 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.@ Demon Duck: Killing relatives isn't anything special for the slasher genre. The Trope Maker Michael Myers tried to kill both his sisters, though he only succeeded with one.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Except this work is a horror-comedy, which may have a lower heinous standard.
Now for some slight expansions:
- Lord Voldemort's (real name: Tom Marvolo Riddle) defining characteristic is being a sociopath who cannot understand love and has no remorse for any of his actions. His Establishing Character Moment is killing two young wizarding parents and his attempted murder of their one-year-old. He started two genocidal wars against Muggle-born wizards, Muggles, and their supporters alike, out of a Nazi-esque desire to create the "perfect" wizarding world; this despite the fact that he himself is half-Muggle. Most heinously, he is well aware that using the spell to murder other humans will split his soul irrevocably, because of how evil the spell is - and uses this knowledge to create immortality for himself. He gets even worse in the later books, as his magical transformations and soul-mutilations have taken a toll on his mind, driving him pretty much completely Ax-Crazy. Throughout the books Voldemort tried to open the Chamber of Secrets as a teenager to wipe out all "mudbloods" (witches or wizards born of two non-magical individuals) in Hogwarts, killed his father and grandparents and framed his uncle for the crime, ordered Cedric Diggory's murder, murdered an entire family because the mother didn't know where someone Voldemort was looking for was, indiscriminately killed his own followers when given bad news, and killed the seemingly loyal Severus Snape because he believed his minion's death would grant him greater power. Half-Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows explain his transformation into a monster, but serve more as a cautionary tale than a true Freudian Excuse: his mother basically enchanted and raped his father, and when his father was freed of the enchantment, he bolted, and his mother died of despair. This led to him growing up without any idea of love or what it entailed. He also conceived a daughter with Bellatrix Lestrange purely for the purpose of having someone to change the past so that someone could be brought up to carry on his legacy. In an alternate timeline, it's revealed that had he succeeded in killing Harry, he would have won the war and enslaved all of the world, causing fatal Muggle disasters casually on a regular basis.
- Dolores Umbridge is a domineering and abusive matron figure and a bureaucrat whose pettiness and personal failings cause catastrophic harm to those under her control, all while maintaining a kind grandmotherly veneer. In Order of the Phoenix, she becomes a teacher at Hogwarts and forces students who speak up against the Ministry of Magic (or just displease her) to use the Blood Quill, which basically uses the writer's blood as ink and can result in permanent scarring. At one point she threatens to use the illegal Cruciatus curse, which has been shown to cause unimaginable pain, and reveals that she sent the two Dementors after Harry and his cousin. In Deathly Hallows, she willingly supports the Death Eater-controlled Ministry, and holds hastily rushed and sadistic trials against Muggle-borns, where she accuses them of stealing magic and gleefully sentences them to the Potter-verse's Fate Worse than Death, the Dementor's Kiss. She is shown to greatly enjoy psychologically torturing her victims, and delights in her new post. In an alternate timeline, she is shown to be the headmistress of Hogwarts and a full blown DeathEater who has Muggle students regularly tortured and murdered and also sends Dementors after Ron Weasley, Hermoine Granger and Severus Snape who are successful in stealing their souls.
- Bellatrix Lestrange is a psychopathic female Death Eater who seems to be motivated primarily by her desire to inflict as much pain on as many people as possible in the name of Voldemort's cause. Bellatrix's insanity makes her an unfettered case of The Fundamentalist, and while Voldemort is a cold and unfeeling murderer, Bellatrix is gleeful cruelty incarnate. She has a special fondness for torturing people with the Cruciatus curse, and tortured Neville Longbottom's parents to the point where they exist in near-comas, and will never recognize their own son again. She is also an accomplished arsonist, burning down multiple residences basically just for the sake of it. She's the cause of death for half of her non-Death-Eater family members, including Sirius Black and Nymphadora Tonks, as well as Dobby, and delights in the torment these deaths cause; she also tried to kill Ginny Weasley during the assault on Hogwarts. Common readings of her also note that she is obsessed with Voldemort, and relishes his cause more than any other Death Eater in the series. She also conceives a child with him, but purely out of lust and only to the means of having someone continue their work should they fail.
If these are good, I'll add them to the drafts. Just say the word.
edited 30th Aug '16 10:41:02 AM by futuremoviewriter
None of the Harry Potter entries need expansion. Leave them all.
@emperors: I personally enjoyed the book, I guess, but a lot of the tension really just comes from characters holding intricate, detailed conversations about the human mind and the Argument. It's a philosopher's book and the actual thriller elements tend to come suddenly and go just as suddenly until the last act; albeit, when the action gets rolling, it is engaging and the twists are fairly well-done (although the twist surrounding Sam is rather sudden, executed clumsily and bizarrely, and introduces a bunch of elements that aren't mentioned again in the book). I suppose it's worth a read (if not ultimately just for Neil, who's more or less the highlight of the book); it basically just boils down to your appreciation for long, philosophical conversations, some of which hold little relevance to the plot.
edited 30th Aug '16 12:29:18 PM by Scraggle
Actually, it is stated that he's killed at least six other people. He just prefers to use already-dead corpses because it's easier.
Last call for votes on General Fujita
. So far, he has three
and two unsure.
No on Fujita.
Anyways, here's Neil:
Neuropath: Neil Cassidy is an obsessive, charismatic neuroscientist playing God with the minds of others who willingly destroyed his own personhood to better demonstrate the fundamentals of the Argument, a complex, nihilistic philosophy ruling everything as a mental construct. After graduating from college by the side of his best friend Thomas Bible, Neil was covertly enrolled in the NSA where he took to immoral mental experiments on prisoners before going rogue to utilize that knowledge on civilians. Neil demonstrates a sick "love" for Thomas and conducts a horrific mind game with him at the center to realign his thinking back to the Argument. Along the way, Neil uses his power over people's brains to have a porn star cut herself to death with broken glass after rewiring her brain to masochistic tendencies, has a business magnate cannibalize a young girl and forces him to enjoy the experience, steals billionaire Gyges' ability to recognize faces and drives him insane, and torments a televangelist with alternating sensations of divine relief and hellish damnation. This culminates in Neil murdering Thomas' - and possibly his own - four-year-old son Frankie and subjecting both Thomas and his ex-wife Nora to horrific mental and emotional torture that ultimately leaves Thomas broken as a person, all to demonstrate his twisted obsession with both Thomas and his long-abandoned philosophies. Suave, cool-headed, and utterly remorseless, Neil took Mind Rape to an art form and left a trail of destroyed lives in his wake.
edited 30th Aug '16 2:16:47 PM by Scraggle

Wow, so there's a reasonable possibility that in the near future Castle, Ripper Street, Teen Wolf, and Tokyo Ghoul could all get their own subpages, pending what happens (the middle 2 seem most likely, especially Teen Wolf, already with 5 entries).
edited 30th Aug '16 9:52:22 AM by ACW