During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
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Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
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Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I know that full well, but I'm saying selling out your people doesn't mean you don't care. I mean to ordinary people it would but not in the drug game, not to mention Chris seemed completely at peace with going to jail. Also Marlo promises to take care of Chris's family.
edited 18th Aug '16 8:15:22 PM by jjjj2
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midYes. But this is typical drug kingpin behavior. Avon did it with Wee-bey. The point of the scene that I brought up is that Marlo is happy that Chris is happy over something completely non-violent. That seems like non-Complete Monster behavior to me.
edited 18th Aug '16 8:34:39 PM by jjjj2
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid![]()
I don't think a Complete Monster has to be a violent loner psycho 24/7, humans desire companionship and even most Complete Monsters need some companionship, as all humans do. A Complete Monster can enjoy some else's company, but caring about someone is a step beyond, I don't think Marlo took that step that made his relationship with Chris seem truly sympathetic. Marlo enjoyed hanging out with Chris, that is it, if he has to choose between Chris and his interests, he will always choose his own interests.
Kilgrave bought Jessica Jones a house and tried several gestures to gain her affection, Esther Coleman from Orphan felt sorry for herself due to her condition and Commander Dolim from Star Trek Enterprise has pretenses of being a WIE, all of them are still monsters.
I think sympathetic moments have to stand out a bit and I don't think this is really a stand out sympathetic moment for Marlo.
edited 18th Aug '16 8:46:26 PM by Overlord
Well yeah, I feel the scene disproves that. The fact that Marlo The Stoic extraordinaire is smiling, and not in a slasher smile sort of way, but that he's happy that Chris is playing with a doll with his probable daughter. The fact that Marlo is smiling to me is notable. If he hadn't been smiling then yes I would agree with keep.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
That's sort of what I am getting at. Most The Stoic's take the form of reservedness i.e. Captain America from the MCU. Whereas Marlo is basically a robot. Chris isn't looking at him while he's playing with his daughter. The fact that he's smiling means to me that he's actually feeling the emotion, otherwise I don't see why he would smile at all.
Here's another time Marlo showed emotion and it wasn't pretty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCaBYEEFTKE
He flat out insults and disrespects Chris for not telling him that Omar was insulting and calling out Marlo, I think that proves that Marlo will always pick his rep over Chris, frankly Marlo will always choose his own interests over Chris, every time.
edited 18th Aug '16 9:10:19 PM by Overlord
You've never gotten angry at your friends before? Besides knowing how important Marlo's reputation was to himself, and how he killed people over rumors; all of that combined with the fact that Chris is still alive and well by the end of the series speaks volumes to me.
I never acted the way Marlo acted in that cell towards anyone I considered a true friend.
Marlo willing to put his rep over human lives and I think that scene shows he was willing to put his rep over Chris. That is why Marlo comes off as a psychopath.
Chris is alive because the DA said they would watching Marlo like a hawk and said they would come down on him like a ton of bricks if he did anything remotely illegal. Marlo is not in a position to kill Chris, because if he died, the DA would instantly suspect Marlo.
edited 18th Aug '16 9:17:58 PM by Overlord
Well yeah, but everybody in that room in Marlo's mind disrespected him the worse than anyone else has ever disrespected him. Marlo killed a man over rumors, and another for 'talking back'. The fact that all of them are alive seems significant to me. Because if it had been anyone else, I feel like he'd have found others to kill them.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the midChris is the most useful man in the organization. He also didn't go out of his way to do Marlo's interests harm. Marlo's too smart for something like that. But honestly, after Chris goes to jail, it's doubtful Marlo will ever think about him much again. As for the family, well...Marlo's rep is everything to him. He's doing what you're supposed to do when someone takes a fall.
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Melvin "Cheese" Wagstaff was in that room, does the fact that Marlo didn't kill Cheese means he liked Cheese as well? Marlo was not in a position to kill all of his lieutenants at that point, that is pragmatism, not empathy.
I think Marlo is a psychopath, who will always put his interests over others, his rep, his money, etc over others. I have no doubt he would kill Chris if it suited his interests.
Marlo also pretended to be kind towards Prop Joe, but killed him as soon as he didn't need anymore, Marlo can be deceptive with his emotions.
edited 18th Aug '16 9:28:46 PM by Overlord
I wanna do a rewrite:
- To Kill a Mockingbird: Robert E. Lee "Bob" Ewell personifies all that was wrong with Dixie in the 1930s. For starters, he's a terrible, neglectful father, to the point where the sheriff actually turns a blind eye to him hunting out of season out of pity for the little Ewells. He gets Tom Robinson, a disabled black man, arrested for supposedly raping and beating his daughter Mayella. Atticus, the defense lawyer, shows that Tom was physically incapable of committing the crime, and that it was Bob who caught Mayella making advances on an unwilling Tom ,and beat her himself. Since the book takes place in the Deep South several decades before the Civil Rights movement, the all-white jury sentences Tom to death anyway. Bob Ewell still tries to take revenge on those that ridiculed him during the trial, It's also implied at one point that Bob himself has been sexually abusing Mayella. Even though Tom Robinson is dead, Bob stays angry with Atticus for digging up the truth. As revenge, he tries to kill Atticus's children on their way home from a school play.
Well I feel like that's never stopped Marlo before. Remember when he was going to attack Herc and Carv, and then Carv found the bat. My point is that if Marlo feels he's being disrespected he will try to fuck the person up. The fact that after he gets all his money he doesn't have a contract killer kill them off in prison is significant to me.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid

I have a counter example for Marlo from The Wire. I think his friendship with Chris is a genuine one and not a 'I enjoy hanging out with them but don't actually care about them' thing. In the episode React Quotes, he wants to celebrate consolidating power and wants to take chris gambling with him. This in itself wouldn't be disqualifying, but then since their also about to be at war with Omar, Chris tells marlo he has to stop by his girlfriends house and tell her he's going away for a while. Marlo outright states "You know I like your peoples", and later when Chris is seen playing with his girlfriend's children, Marlo is outright seen smiling, and coming from Marlo who rarely if ever shows emotion, this is notable.
edited 18th Aug '16 7:23:56 PM by jjjj2
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid