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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

edited 7th Nov '17 9:59:04 AM by Fighteer

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 5th 2016 at 2:57:58 PM

Alright, I'm calling a cutoff point for new entries. 20 so far, plus I'll have two effortposts tomorrow morning by 10 ET (Wrecking Paul, and Judge Carolyn Bachmann from the Judge Dredd crossover "Trifecta").

edited 5th Aug '16 4:05:10 PM by ACW

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Aug 5th 2016 at 8:03:36 PM

Hey, so I saw a bad entry under Secret Six.

  • Complete Monster: Dwarfstar is a crazy, misogynistic serial killer. His first words to Bane upon joining the Six are a question of how many women he's killed. Sure, Cheshire is bad, but Dwarfstar is completely and utterly repugnant even when compared to her. Given the team's current membership, however (an immortal, immensely strong banshee, a sociopathic female assassin, and a giantess), he probably won't be alive much longer. Bane takes an instant dislike to him. After failing to kill Ryan Choi after so long, he hired Deathstroke's Titans team to kill Choi. And he wanted the miniature corpse in a matchbox for a trophy, which he received with a big shit-eating smile on his face. For that, Giganta beat him with his own belt so badly that it broke every bone in his body. Unfortunately, based on the latest issue of Titans, he's still clinging to life in a Louisiana hospital. He told Ray Palmer that it was Deathstroke who murdered Ryan, and Ray pointed out that Slade probably won't take kindly to this development.

Do I even need to explain what's wrong with this entry? It makes him sound more like a Jerkass and a Hate Sink than a Complete Monster. Aside from the "misogynistic serial killer" line, he doesn't sound like he stands out a lot, so if someone could possibly expand on his crimes, that'd be great.

Why so serious?
Aug 5th 2016 at 8:49:16 PM

Glad I've seen the work so I can comment, but definite [tdown] for Krall. very sympathetic Freudian Excuse that makes him a Tragic Villain and very heavy implication (as well as one outright scene) of him caring for his crew and vice versa. With that, it's really string how like Krall and his henchmen seem to outsiders/their victims like dreaded monstrosities but are joined together by a common bond and desire for revenge. And so like he and his Dragon have this very touching parting and implicitly the woman in his crew who acts as a Trojan horse is like as loyal to him as Uhara or anyone would be to Kirk (and vice versa).

Also, although it's a weaker argument, since the Blood Knight element is tied into his terrible circumstances warping his personality and revenge is a big motivation, there's also a bit of something like Kimblee or Shishio in Krall's ideology- like to some extent he things that he's doing people a favor by making the world a hellish place filled with war and conflict, but importantly, he's as hard on himself as he is on others.

edited 5th Aug '16 8:54:15 PM by Hodor2

Supporting the right to arm bears
Aug 5th 2016 at 9:52:57 PM

I will give some late [tup] to Ed, Diana, Weissman and Yhwach.

[tdown] to Krall.

He seems similar to other tragic Star Trek villains who were war heroes, but couldn't handle peace, like General Chang and Admiral Cartwright from Star Trek 6 (Klingon and Federation officials who feel that peace between this two powers would be a disaster) and Ben Maxwell from the TNG episode the Wounded (a war hero who hated the Cardassians because they killed his family and felt they gearing up for a war well pretending to honor a peace treaty, Maxwell killed 700 Cardassians (including civilians) but was right about the Cardassian Union gearing up for war). All of those villains are sympathetic in their own way, its a common Star Trek villain trope. There is a reason Star Trek has fewer monsters then say Star Wars and why none of the Star Trek movies have ever had a monster.

Aug 6th 2016 at 1:32:47 AM

I agree that dwarf star should get a rewrite, I would do it, but I suck

edited 6th Aug '16 3:19:20 AM by Mediawatcher

Aug 6th 2016 at 6:19:38 AM

So that makes 13 Star Trek films without a CM.

Awesomekid42 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Aug 6th 2016 at 7:01:02 AM

[up]

How many of them actually do have a CM?

Aug 6th 2016 at 7:20:30 AM

There are only 13 films, so none of them.

CMs in Trek are rare because it's such an idealistic franchise.

edited 6th Aug '16 7:20:51 AM by lrrose

Aug 6th 2016 at 7:55:11 AM

[up][up] There are 13 Star Trek films in total, 10 in the original continuity and 3 in the rebooted universe, so none of the Star Trek films has a monster. Again Star Trek is not as focused on battles of good vs. evil like Star Wars is, Star Trek can be more morally gray, but there are a fair amount of examples from the Star Trek TV shows and video games, enough to justify a Star Trek sub page. Star Trek is a huge franchise and even though monsters are less common then in say Dr. Who or Star wars, they can still occur and the size of the franchise means you could have numerous examples, even if the movies and some of the shows don't have any examples. Star Trek has more examples then some prominent franchises like Dragon Ball, simply because of the size of the Star Trek franchise.

I went into my thoughts on why the Star Trek movie villains don't count here:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=2585#!

[up] Well we have 12 examples so far, most in the TV shows and video games, one from the novels and though Redjac started as a TV villain, his worst crimes are from the comics. Star Trek is optimistic and will have far less examples then Star Wars, but Star Trek does have its darker moments.

Frankly I think a big reason none of the movie villains count, is because the film makers often make the villains a copy of their most popular villain, Khan. Too many Star Trek movies copy Wrath of Khan (Sinzon and Nero come off less compelling copies of Khan), so they often have the same M.O as Khan.

edited 6th Aug '16 8:50:36 AM by Overlord

Aug 6th 2016 at 10:21:56 AM

like to some extent he things that he's doing people a favor by making the world a hellish place filled with war and conflict

I would note that this is really important. If the villain genuinely thinks they are doing everyone else a favour through their actions, than the villain cannot count, both because of good, if warped, intentions, and because their sanity becomes rather questionable.

Shishio's a good example of this, as you noted—he wants to turn Japan into a dysfunctional dystopian hellhole, but he genuinely thinks that will make the country a better place in the long run, and help them resist the influence of the colonial powers. Rau Le Creuset's an even more extreme example—he's out to kill every man, woman, and child on Earth, but believes that in doing so he's providing the Mercy Kill they all secretly want.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Aug 6th 2016 at 2:21:20 PM

On the subject of DC Comics, on Black Manta's entry, there's a typo and the entry redirects to Comic Boom.

Why so serious?
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 6th 2016 at 2:49:54 PM

[up] [lol] First off, a comic boom sounds AWESOME [lol]. I just requested the change (P.S. for the future: Any obvious typos or anything, feel free to request the change).


I'm just not feeling it; I'll do this week's batch tomorrow morning.
One thing I WILL take care of now though: I've moved some entries at Webcomic CM Cleanup to the folder for ones that are okay; there are still like half to go [lol] Let's take care of one now though: Wrecking Paul from Everyday Heroes. Now, a note: I haven't read the whole strip, so this will be a shorter effortpost than usual, but I'd be SHOCKED if anyone's as bad as Paul. Now:
  • First, some background: A superhero and his retired-supervillain wife, Jane, move into a neighborhood, and she tells her story. She came from a family of villains; her father was apathetic and her brothers were...well, Big Brother Bully is a trope. She meets a friend (also named Jane; nicknamed Goldie), who lands a job at a villain firm (they are hired by insurance companies to re-steal stolen items; the insurance cos. pay them 10% of the value); Jane joins, and they work together with Wrecking Paul, as "Wrecking Paul and the Chain Gang." There's one problem though...
  • Who is he and what has he done?
    • On a mission to steal from a female super (this is key), it turns out they're facing a male super...which surprises Paul. He then kills Golden Jane, and it turns out that he is a Serial Killer, and all the missions had female targets or female security guards.
    • Goldie was able to apply because Paul had killed his previous henchwomen.
    • After each mission, the Janes get a trip somewhere...probably so they don't discover what Paul's up to.
    • After being stopped by the male super, it turns out Paul is the boss of Jane's company.
    • He is sentenced to life in prison, and appears in one final strip.
  • Disqualifiers?
    • There's a throwaway line about a "killing mood" and "not being satisfied" until getting another victim, but there's no real sign this should disqualify him, No seeming Freudian Excuse or anything else.
  • Heinous Standard?
    • We see images of two murders, see a third one, here of a fourth one...and there are probably more.
  • Final Verdict?
    • I say he counts.

edited 6th Aug '16 2:52:45 PM by ACW

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Aug 6th 2016 at 2:53:47 PM

[up]That's hardly a full length effortpost.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 6th 2016 at 2:55:58 PM

[up] I might read through the whole thing, but that's for now. That pretty much contains all of his stuff,

edited 6th Aug '16 2:56:09 PM by ACW

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Aug 6th 2016 at 3:43:48 PM

Star Trek may be an idealistic franchise, but it still has a lot of monsters in it. it even has its own page

edited 6th Aug '16 3:53:18 PM by Mediawatcher

Aug 6th 2016 at 4:01:57 PM

From the quotes page:

"This time, Mr. Bond, the pleasure will be all mine!"
Xenia Onatopp to James Bond while attempting to crush him, Film/Goldeneye

I don't think this does a good job at demonstrating her monstrosity, even with the context provided. Remove?

G-Editor Checking out both cleanup threads from Where crime is near Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Checking out both cleanup threads
Aug 6th 2016 at 4:04:01 PM

[tup] for Diana, [tdown] for Krall, and [tdown] for Xenia quote

[up] speaking of quotes I found this on the CM quote page as well

"Your disregard for life is just astounding. Could you be any more callous?"
Viridi to Hades, Kid Icarus: Uprising

Do you want me to cut this, it sounds more like a quote for TheSociopath or LackOfEmpathy than a Complete monster?

edited 6th Aug '16 4:10:42 PM by G-Editor

Simultaneously!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: In my bunk
Aug 6th 2016 at 4:04:11 PM

What do other characters in Everyday Heroes get up to?

[tdown] Xenia quote.

Ongoing Projects
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.)
Aug 6th 2016 at 4:08:44 PM

[up] Sigh, I'm gonna have to read the whole thing, aren't I? sad
[nja] [up][up] Yeah, cut that. That's You Monster!, and not a YM quote that's enough for this trope.

edited 6th Aug '16 4:23:00 PM by ACW

CM Drafts; Pending CM Writeups
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Aug 6th 2016 at 4:24:59 PM

Is anyone going to comment on that Dwarfstar entry?

Why so serious?
Aug 6th 2016 at 4:57:30 PM

I may have found a possible candidate from Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night, the unofficial sequel to Pinocchio. The villain happens to be voiced by James Earl Jones, and is by far the most entertaining and intense part of that animated movie.

Who is he?

The Emperor of the Night is the titular big bad of this movie who resides inside a haunted ship that lures and tempts victims into surrendering their freedoms, and then steals their souls and turns them into puppets for all eternity. Puppetino is the Emperor's main henchman that runs the carnival to lure potential victims. Among the victims is a little girl named Twinkle, and the large collection of puppets includes children. The Emperor of the Night does all this so that he can become stronger, while the Blue Fairy is weakened enough so that he can destroy her.

Puppetino captures Pinocchio (who is a real boy at this point), and turns him into a puppet, which the transformation is shown to be a painful process, until Pinocchio is lifeless. Pinocchio comes back to life when the Blue Fairy saves him, and he escapes. Eventually the Emperor and Puppetino has Gepetto, Pinocchio's father, in their clutches.

After a bit of manipulation, the Emperor of the Night reveals himself to Pinocchio, and using Gepetto as leverage, tries to coerce Pinocchio into signing away his freedom to the Emperor forever, if he releases Gepetto and Pinocchio's friends. Pinocchio actually submits to the Emperor, before the Emperor orders Puppetino to lock up Pinocchio's friends in the dungeon. This enables Pinocchio to stand up to the Emperor, causing the Emperor pain, allowing Pinnochio and friends to escape.

Witnessing this, Puppetino tries to abandon the Emperor, but the Emperor brutally disposes of Puppetino, transforming him into a puppet, and vaporizing him. The Emperor catches up to Pinocchio, and threatens to harm Gepetto for destroying his ship, but Pinocchio is willing to sacrifice himself to save Gepetto, which then destroys the Emperor for good. The Blue Fairy revives Pinocchio, turning him back into a real boy, and transforms Twinkle back into a real girl.

Heinous Factor:

He's the main villain who sets the heinous standard, and delegates his henchman to lure more victims with his carnival. Also to note is that apart from Twinkle, none of the early victims were saved.

Migtating Factors:

Most of the emperors worst actions occurred offscreen, or is done mostly by his henchman. However, the aftermath was shown twice in the film, such as the collection of lifeless puppets (including children), and when the Emperor tries to get Pinocchio to sign away his freedom, the Emperor himself ominously states to his henchman that "Pinocchio will obey, they all do." The other thing is that he is a supernatural and rather creepy demon, who is strongly implied to be the devil, with all those deals and manipulations and stealing souls. However, every horrible thing he does is for the goal of destroying the Blue Fairy, so the Emperor is a malignant humanoid abomination, and he wanted to go back on his deal with releasing Pinocchio's friends and father. Puppetino, the Emperor's henchman, does take some sadistic glee with working for the Emperor, and the only reason he tries to abandon the Emperor is because he is a coward. But I don't think he counts, since he's essentially the Emperor's proxy.

Final Verdict:

I think he might count. [tup] The Emperor of the Night is essentially the expy of the Coachman if he were far less subtle.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
Aug 6th 2016 at 6:52:23 PM

[tup]The Emperor.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Relationship Status: In my bunk

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