During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
No on Catalina, and I think I'll give a yea to Krivzha.
Any other thoughts on Quoc?
I feel like everyone who either hasn't seen the movie yet but voted should see it and then revote on Rowan. It's crazy how we are so split on him.
edited 31st Jul '16 10:49:32 AM by futuremoviewriter
Wild Child
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Quoc.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on Catalina.
also on Krivzha. I'm not really comfortable with the idea of putting a character obviously meant to demonize pagan religions as a CM. It's like the worst hodgepodge of nasty stereotypes about paganism in one character. (I say this as a Christian.) Coupled with the fact that this movie is about the spread of Christianity in Russia... I am really uncomfortable with this character on many levels.
Catalina. BTW, rape is by no means rare. The protagonist himself (Trevor Phillps) has commited rape.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Castle in the Sky: Romuska Palo Ul/Ur Laputa, known as Colonel Muska, is one of the few antagonists from a Miyazaki film who is purely evil. Muska was a ruthless government secret agent who tried to take the flying city of Laputa by force, being actually a descendant of the Laputean monarchy just like Sheeta. Along the way, he committed many heinous crimes such as kidnapping Sheeta and Pazu, threatening to kill Pazu if Sheeta didn't give him the amulet that held the power to control Laputa. When he finally conquers Laputa, however, he became mad with power and proceeded to toss his own henchmen from the floating city, all while laughing about it, and intends to use the flying castle's power to wipe out everything in his way so that he can become ruler of the world. He also threatened to shoot Sheeta's ears off after she tried to convince him that the people left Laputa because it was uninhabitable, and when Pazzu arrived on the scene, Muska threatened the lives of both children unless they surrendered the crystal back to him. Throughout the film, Muska showed manipulative and emotionally abusive tendencies, a sense of entitlement, greed, hunger for power, revulsion of "disgusting" natural wildlife that he wanted to have burned down, and a willingness to hurt or even kill children if it got him closer to what he wanted.
- Junk: Record of the Last Hero: Suzuki, the "Red JUNK" user, is by far the most wicked character in this Champion RED Shōnen manga. Once a jobless bum, Suzuki quickly became power-mad once given his own " JUNK " Sentai-esque super-suit, and immediately began brutally killing and maiming people for minor offenses, claiming it was in the name of "justice". Showing his true colors after destroying a helicopter and its crew for annoying him, Suzuki first hunts down and tries to kill two defenseless women after slicing off the top half of the hotel they reside in, and later massacres over 170 people who used to be his co-workers, stating that it's their fault he lost his job. Suzuki then became an assassin for hire who would kill anyone he was paid to, then murder his own employers once the job was done, regardless of innocence or guilt. Even when overpowered by another JUNK user, Suzuki kills numerous innocents during his attempt to keep his suit for himself. A perfect mixture of laziness, greed, and sadism, Suzuki stood out even in this morally grey story as a truly monstrous individual.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, by Mendheim & Bisley: Belarios is a demon sent to Earth by his master, Satan himself. Taking on the persona of a Corrupt Corporate Executive, Belarios leads the Nicolaitan cult, which, on Belarios's orders, kills many people while searching for the Seven Seals, which will release The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and Satan himself, resulting in Hell on Earth. Besides the dozens if not hundreds killed, and the millions if not billions who would be killed if his plan succeeded, Belarios is also responsible for corrupting a US senator; the death of Adam Cahill's wife; and slashing Cahill's young daughter's face, also planning to kill her, when he finds out she has the last Seal.
- Kevin from "The Hard Goodbye", with a short cameo in "That Yellow Bastard", is a young, emotionless, cannibalistic Serial Killer who acts as a hitman for Cardinal Patrick Henry Roark. In the meantime, Kevin murders and eats prostitutes; piece by piece, keeping the women alive as long as possible and making them watch. He cuts of and eats the left hand of Marv's parole officer Lucille, and throws her in the basement of the farmhouse, where there are several heads of Kevin's previous victims.
- Doom Patrol: Captain Zahl, who later became a foe of the Teen Titans, was a Nazi U-Boat commander turned criminal mercenary who never gave up on imposing the Third Reich's vision on the world. After a confrontation with Niles "The Chief" Caulder left him down an arm and confined to a back and neck brace, Zahl took on a behind-the-scenes role, transforming Otto Von Furth into the always-burning Plasmus, and manipulating the unstable Madame Rouge into betraying the Doom Patrol and Brotherhood of Evil both, resulting in the demise of both teams. Hunted across the world by surviving Doom Patrol members and associates Gar Logan, Robotman, and Mento, Zahl battled the New Teen Titans when he and his army joined Madame Rouge's attempted conquest of Zandia. Under Zahl's direction his men massacred thousands of Zandia's expat inhabitants, and captured the Titans, subjecting them to the horrors of his Devolving Pit.
- Count Yorga duology: Count Yorga is a vampire who has already turned two women into his vampire brides. After a couple drives him back to his castle, he proceeds to turn the girl, Erica, into his third vampire bride, and murders her boyfriend, Paul, when he tries to intervene. Capturing the female lead, Donna, he transforms her as well, and when the human protagonists, Hayes and Michael, arrive to try and save her, he feeds Hayes to his brides, and kills one of them to distract Michael. In the sequel, The Return of Count Yorga, he transforms numerous women into vampires and kills various people, all while planning to transform/feed on an entire orphanage, and than the whole town. Though he dies, he succeeds in dooming the town by creating an undead army and closing off all escape routes.
- The Frozen Ground: In this 2013 thriller, Robert "Bob" Hansen appears to everyone as a polite family man and a nice, upstanding member of society, but in reality is a vicious and prolific Serial Killer. Consumed by sexual frustration and rage against women, he regularly abducts girls that he lured into his house and proceeds to beat, rape and humiliate them. Once he's done with his victims, he takes them to a remote place in the Alaskan woods and lets them run away just so he can hunt them down like wild game and bring back trophies of his hunts. He never shows anything other than rage and contempt at his victims, getting off of abusing them, and is prepared to kill any potential witness, including his friends and neighbours. Active for more than a decade, Hansen is responsible for murdering at least seventeen girls and raping thirty more.
- Darkness Series:
- Swemmel, the half-mad king of Unkerlant, is probably the single most tyrannical ruler in the story. Seizing power after the Twinkings War, Swemmel's first act as king was to have his twin brother and rival Kyot boiled alive in a cauldron, before launching a massive purge of the nobility. Ruling through fear alone, Swemmel cut a deal with King Mezentio of Algarve to divide Forthweg between them, then invaded neutral Zuwayza while the rest of the continent was distracted by the war against Algarve. When the Algarvians double-crossed Swemmel and invaded Unkerlant, Swemmel sacrificed his own peasants in magical rituals in order to buy time, declaring that so long as he had one subject left at the end of the war and Mezentio had none, he would be the victor. When the war begins to swing in his direction, Swemmel proves himself as bad a winner as he is a loser, enslaving Algarvian prisoners, executing Grelzan prisoners, and boiling "King" Rainero of Grelz the same way he did Kyot. A paranoid megalomaniac, Swemmel finds himself the most powerful man on the continent at the end of the war, and is contemplating starting a new one against his erstwhile allies Lagoas and Kusammo.
- The unnamed interrogator is a low-level government functionary and professional torturer in Jelgava. Initially an employee of King Donalitu of Jelgava, the interrogator goes over to the Algarvians when they conquer the country, and takes a special interest in would-be loyalist rebel Talsu. Arresting Talsu, the interrogator tries to torture him into giving up names of fellow "traitors", traitors whom he knows do not actually exist. When Talsu refuses, the interrogator instead tortures his wife, until each of them gives up names to save the other. Talsu is released, but strong-armed into helping the interrogator uncover more "traitors" under pain of being arrested again. When the war ends and King Donalitu returns, the interrogator turns his cloak again and arrests Talsu for conspiring with the Algarvians to prevent Donalitu's return, denouncing his unwilling accomplice as the vilest of traitors. Responsible for the execution of dozens of innocent people and making Talsu's life a living hell, the interrogator abused anyone who came into his power, while dismissing his own treachery as the acts of a Consummate Professional.
- The Teratologist: In this horror novel by Wrath James White and Edward Lee, John Farringworth is a depraved narcissist obsessed with his own perfection. Having always gotten what he wanted in life, Farringworth's ego takes a hit when a pair of beings he dubs the "Angels" refuse to have anything to do with him, leading him to devise a plan to force them to love him by taking the knowledge from God. Attempting to convince God to confront him, Farringworth begins kidnapping mentally and physically deformed people he dubs "freaks", injecting them with a drug that drives them into a sex-scrazed insanity, then does the same to religious leaders before recording them doing depraved sexual acts with the freaks. Along with leaking the videos of the relations online, Farringworth often disposes of his victims when through with them, at times raping some of them himself. When, rather than God, the devil confronts Farringworth, Farringworth demands the devil give him the power to bring hell on earth to destroy all innocence and goodness in the world in order to become the "perfect evil". An egomaniac turned psychopathic monster, Farringworth was so wicked that the devil himself sang his praises.
- MarÃa la del barrio: Soraya Montenegro initially appeared just an arrogant wealthy woman who wanted to marry Luis Fernando. But upon Maria’s arrival she reveals her true nature. Envious of Luis's attraction to Maria, Soraya first tried to seduce him with her Nana Calixta's black magic, then slept with him while he was drunk and faked pregnancy forcing him to marry her. She also tried to poison Maria and shot her lover Osvaldo Treviño to prevent him from revealing her plans. Soraya treats everyone less fortunate than her—even her own mother--with absolute contempt, and kills her underlings without a second thought. She seemingly dies from falling through a window, but is later revealed to have survived and fled to America for fifteen years. There, she marries Oscar Montalban, a rich man who cared for her during her recovery. She rewards his kindness by murdering him to gain his money, and returns to Mexico pretending to be remorseful. Soraya begins regularly abusing her disabled step daughter Alicia and Alicia’s elderly godmother Esperanza. She delights in finding creative ways to torture them, such leaving Alicia alone in a room filled with tarantulas. To get revenge against Maria she starts seducing Maria’s teenage son Nandito, regularly getting him dangerously drunk. Discovering that Alicia and Nandito had fallen for each other, she attempted to kill them and Esperanza. Soraya then murders her own mother, having previously abandoned her to live on the streets, and frames Nandito for the crime, leading to Maria being imprisoned. Upon discovering Maria survived the prison fire, Soraya kidnaps her and personally attempts to burn her to death. An elitist sociopath Soraya was the only villain to never express any remorse for her crimes.
- Star Trek: Klingon Academy: Melkor, son of G'Iogh, is a member of the House of G'Iogh, a powerful family within in the Klingon Empire. Though most Klingons have a a sense of honor, Melkor is defined by his cowardice and willingness to use treachery to get ahead. After his brother is killed trying to start a coup against the Klingon High Council, Melkor devises a far more ambitious plan to seize control of the Empire. When the elderly Chancellor of the Empire dies, Melkor claims the title of Emperor and starts a Civil War to seize power. Melkor is opposed by Gorkon, the rightful successor to the Chancellor's office, and General Chang, a hardliner anti-Federation officer, who realizes Melkor's rule would be a disaster for the Empire. Melkor manages to conquer a Klingon star base, which Chang liberates. However, Melkor has rigged the star base to explode, forcing Chang to evacuate as many base personal as he can. The destruction of the star base still results in the deaths of thousands of Klingon officers. Melkor then conquers the Tal'Ihnor Gates, a star system that is the Empire's chief source of energy. Though Chang's and Gorkon's forces defeat Melkor's forces at Tal'Ihnor, Melkor has one of his officers activate a doomsday weapon, destroying the entire star system. Melkor would rather see the Tal'Ihnor system destroyed then fall into Chang's hands, an act of spite that kills untold Klingons, including several of his own troops. Melkor loses all support within the Klingon Empire, but convinces the Romulans to back his claim, leading a Romulan invasion of the Klingon home world. Though Melkor is ultimately defeated and killed, his failed scheme leaves untold Klingons dead and severely cripples the Empire.
- Unicron is a powerful and ancient Transformer who feeds upon worlds and the negative emotions of others. Disguising himself as one of Cybertron's moons, Unicron created the Mini-Cons to escalate the war between the Autobots and the Decepticons. Hoping to consume both sides once he regained enough power from their conflict, Unicron's plans were foiled when the Mini-Cons gained free will and abandoned Cybertron. Unicron slumbered for millions of years before the Mini-Cons were discovered on Earth. Unicron soon sent his herald Sideways to Earth to keep the war going and help restore him to his full power. Once fully awakened, Unicron attacked Cybertron, killed Starscream, and briefly stripped the Mini-Cons of their free will. Although he was defeated thanks to the combined efforts of the Autobots and Decepticons, Unicron returned with a vengeance. Before the events of Energon, Unicron devoured the home world of Alpha Q and all of its inhabitants. Unicron was heavily damaged when Scorponok blew up the planet in order to stop him, but he was eventually revived by Megatron, who had hoped to turn him into a weapon. Unicron instead possessed Megatron and went off to destroy several planets that Alpha Q had managed to restore. Despite having the ability to restore the planets that he had previously destroyed, Unicron instead prefers to use his god-like powers to achieve the destruction of space itself.
- The aforementioned Megatron, later known as Galvatron, is the brutal commander of the Decepticons. While he was arguably a Noble Demon in Armada, and a lesser evil than the aforementioned Unicron, Megatron still committed a number of crimes in that series, such as enslaving Mini-Cons to use against the Autobots in his war of conquest, trying to kill the Autobots' human allies, murdering Smokescreen with the Requiem Blaster, and trying to destroy Earth with the Hydra Cannon, only showing remorse when Optimus Prime sacrificed himself to prevent the final act. Upon his resurrection in Energon, Megatron discards any redeeming features he once had in his quest for power and domination. Leading his forces in destructive raids for Energon, Megatron plans to use the element to revive Unicron and use him as a weapon. Now a callous Control Freak, Megatron uses Unicron's power to subvert the wills of his followers, notably enslaving Scorponok and Starscream and trying to do the same to Inferno, torturing the Autobot to the brink of insanity. In Cybertron, Megatron, having developed a god complex, seeks to use the Cyber Planet Keys to accelerate the Unicron Singularity's expansion to end reality and reconstruct it in his own image. To this end, Megatron views his followers as utterly disposable, cruelly manipulating them, as well as several others, to serve his mad goals. Along the way, Megatron brutally guns down three Autobots, nearly killing them, to test his new weapon. In the end, when questioned on how his minions will survive his apocalyptic plan, Galvatron admits that he doesn't care if they do, proving himself to be a truly selfish monster. A power-hungry, uncaring, self-obsessed narcissist, Megatron demonstrates the worst that someone can sink to when they care only for themselves.
edited 1st Aug '16 6:32:15 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
Yes' to Krishva and Quoc. Undecided on Catalin at the moment.
Well, this is embarassing. Disregard this effortpost. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
.
edited 31st Jul '16 11:36:58 AM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Seiji Hatsume is indeed a keeper. I know this, as I proposed and wrote him up a long time ago!
Yes to Krivzha...I don't really think that's the best argument against, Largo. We have villains of all stripes, philosophies and faiths on the list, from Christian fundamentalists and inquisitors (Brother Josiah, Friar Bolton), to satanists, anarchists (Corky Laputa), libertarians (Emil Fouchon), Muslim terrorists (Nagai Hassan, Hilal Kohistani), and so on and so forth. A Pagan villain being evil in what amounts to a Russian folktale there...would it be any different than a Viking CM in a story about the clash of faiths in Britain circa 500 AD?
I'll yea Quoc as well.
edited 31st Jul '16 11:35:27 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Hasumi is such an easy keeper that he's already on the list
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Eh, given the conversation about how racism should be dealt with in C Ms, I really wasn't feeling comfortable with this particular character. It's not an argument I usually defer to; the whole tone of the movie (being about the conversion of a people) as described, combined with a lot of those stereotypical "they sacrifice babies and are murderous and power hungry!"... yeah.
I was also kind of confused by the conversation, to be fair, as it's something I absolutely don't remember affecting anything before.
edited 31st Jul '16 11:37:31 AM by LargoQuagmire
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Now, if you wanna EXPAND Hasumi, couldn't hurt (boy, effortposts were shorter then ).
- Lesson Of The Evil: In this Takashi Miike film, Seiji Hasumi is Seemingly a mild-mannered teacher, but in fact is a dangerous, sadistic Serial Killer. Teaming up with a killer in America, Hasumi killed many people there before murdering his partner as well. At his school in Japan, Hasumi starts killing students and "overbearing" parents before deciding to just massacre everyone at school one night with a shotgun. Even when caught, he decides to fake insanity to escape responsibility in court as a new game.
The offer to expand Kevin remains open BTW.
edited 31st Jul '16 12:05:40 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Catalina, she doesn't even come close to the standard
krizvha
edited 31st Jul '16 11:47:35 AM by Mediawatcher
Catalina. The heinous standard in GTA series is probably the highest so far. She doesn't do anything extraordinarily special to count (at least on-screen) and almost every protagonist in the series has crossed the Moral Event Horizon or at least are on the verge of crossing it. Donald Love is an easy keep since he goes extra mile by devouring human corpses, not to mention he has influence over the whole Liberty City.
edited 31st Jul '16 11:47:30 AM by Kookosbanaani
Messenger from another dimension.
The story in no way demonizes pagan religions. Krizvha is presented as someone who uses religion as a disguise but in reality he wants power. There is another priest on the pagan religion who is presented as wise a sympathetic.
And yes to Quoc.
edited 31st Jul '16 11:46:21 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
to Krishva and Quoc
to Catalina
Krivzha, Quoc
A total has-been.
Well now that I've contributed an Io writeup and a re-writeup for Colonel Muska, I'm contemplating when I should propose my next candidate. I give a fair warning that this one will be tricky to cover not only due to past complications, but because I do not intend for the candidate to actually go up yet, seeing as they're a General Hux Case. Meaning that it's a character whose arc has not yet finished and I honestly have no idea when it will be finished given their series' beyond crappy release schedule. though evidence indicates it should be continuing sometime later into this very year.
So the idea would be to get votes and opinions on how the character has been presented thus far but still put them on the "wait and see" list in the end. Or maybe they could go up, since Monsters with unfinished arcs have gone up and stayed up in the past (Ramsay Bolton), in addition to Old Shames such as Obito Uchiha, Dagur the Deranged, Jamie Moriarty, Blaine Debeers. Eobard Thawne, that one Yandere chick from a Zombie Apocalypse anime whose name I can't recall, etc.
At this point, I'm kind of stuck. 
edited 31st Jul '16 12:00:37 PM by ANewMan
I think Muska's entry should also mention how he intends to start the lineage anew with Sheeta who is still a child and also blood related to him.
A total has-been.
I considered that, but I don't think that part went past "implications" in the movie itself. He didn't elaborate, so for all we know he'd wait til she was 18 before he started raping her.
We said this already to zcooper, but telling people to see something before voting or revoting isn't welcome.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"given their series' beyond crappy release schedule"...Oh, so Berserk has a new candidate?
Can you at least tell who it is? I'm curious now.
Is that explicit about Muska? That's...disturbing. ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Oh, I see. Normally I'd agree, but in this case...I guess he's a no for now, but can people change their votes later?
edited 31st Jul '16 12:00:58 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A total has-been.
Nah, it's not Berserk, though I do hope the new anime adaptation helps the magaka speed up the series and finally reach the ending after all these decades. 
I don't think Catalina's any more a Complete Monster than Katejina is.![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]")
to her.