During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I like the new entry for Ramsay. I like how it mention's Rickon's death. I will probably get lots of backlash for it, but I was even more sad when Rickon died than when Ned, Robb and Catelyn, or even Hodor died. The only death that could rival Rickon's is Shireen's.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Maybe that's because the two characters you listed are both innocent children. And maybe it's because both of their deaths were entirely friggin' pointless. Especially Rickon, who I was praying would do something relevant in the show.
Anyway, writeup for Ramsay looks great.
edited 17th Jul '16 1:39:20 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.I've Added mine there as well
I believe we should wait for Lighty's take on Ramsay's entry The one I'm reading seems pretty and I think Lighty could do a much better job
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI pulled this on Titan A.E.
- Complete Monster: Queen Susquehana of the Drej seems as a possible example because she believed that humans have no purpose.
Ugh, cut that. That's not even CM, that's more Misanthrope Supreme or something.
edited 17th Jul '16 4:01:27 AM by ACW
I think the writeup makes it beautifully clear Ramsay's a Bad Boss. We don't need to list every action of his.
By the by, found this on the YMMV page for Thief (2014):
- Complete Monster: The Thief-Taker General is the only character in the game portrayed completely unsympathetically. He dispenses hangings for minor infractions, squeezes the criminal underground with a "black tax," murders his own men when they displease him and beats a prostitute for making a joke. Chapter 3 implies he may be a pedophile, as he pressures Madame Xiao Xiao, the owner of the brothel, to give him someone "younger" than the girl he usually requests. (He also takes note of the new workers at the House of Blossoms in the same conversation, which adds to the implication.)
edited 17th Jul '16 6:20:59 AM by Scraggle
I'd actually agree with adding that We Have Reserves part to Ramsay's entry, since it's a very good example of his pointless cruelty since he has twice as many men as Jon does but still sacrifices their lives pointlessly. Instead I'd recommend cutting the part mentioning trying to shoot Jon from a distance and taunting Sansa since they're both pretty tame in comparison to everything else listed.
Try this. Thisclose to being a Wall of Text; but, considering it's, you know, Ramsay, I'm okay with it.
- Ramsay Snow, the sadistic Bastard of Bolton, exemplifies every negative stereotype about bastards in Westeros. After capturing Winterfell and flaying the Ironborn who had held it, Ramsay engages in twisted games with the captive prince Theon Greyjoy. First he pretends to be an Ironborn agent who frees Theon, even killing his own men to keep up the illusion before he leads Theon back to the Dreadfort where he personally takes over the torture, consisting of flaying bits of Theon's skin until he begs for the finger to be cut off, and even castrating him before sending the result to Theon's father in a box. All that remains of Theon is a beaten shell of a man Ramsay dubs "Reek” who serves without question. In his spare time, Ramsay and his equally psychotic lover Myranda release girls into the woods to hunt them with bows and arrows and Ramsay's monstrous hounds who maul the girls to death. When Ramsay makes Theon negotiate a surrender with other Ironborn, Ramsay promises them safe passage, only to have them immediately flayed alive and displayed as gruesome trophies. Upon marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay rapes her on the wedding night and continues to rape and abuse her all throughout the marriage. Learning his father Roose and new stepmother have a son, Ramsay solidifies his hold on power by murdering Roose and having his vicious hounds eat his newborn brother and stepmother alive. When he finally engages Jon Snow and the Northern armies, he doesn’t care that his own men are in the line of fire; releases the child Rickon Stark to run towards Jon, shooting him dead with an arrow moments before he reaches Jon. Even as a prisoner, Ramsay attempts to hurt Sansa as much as he can with his taunts.
edited 17th Jul '16 8:10:22 AM by ACW
Here's something, with most potholes intact:
- Ramsay Snow is the bastard son of Lord Roose Bolton and the most vicious member of House Bolton. A sadist with a knack for torture and flaying others alive, Ramsay captured Winterfell and proceeded to play twisted games with the captive Theon Greyjoy, culminating in Ramsay bringing Theon to the Dreadfort and subjecting him to prolonged, hideous torture - including flaying bits of him and castrating him. All that remains of Theon afterwards is a broken shell whom Ramsay dubs "Reek” who serves without question. In his spare time, Ramsay and his equally psychotic lover Myranda release girls into the woods to hunt them for sport, also using the time to feed Ramsay's savage hounds. When Ramsay makes Theon negotiate a surrender with other Ironborn, Ramsay promises them safe passage, only to have them immediately flayed alive and displayed as gruesome trophies. After marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay rapes her on the wedding night and continues to sexually and physically abuse her throughout the rest of the marriage. Ramsay cements his rule over his hold by murdering Roose and having his hounds eat his infant brother and stepmother. When he finally engages the Northern armies, Ramsay is apathetic to the death of his own men and shoots Rickon Stark dead just before he reaches Jon. With few matching Ramsay's pointless savagery, Ramsay exemplified every negative stereotypes about bastards in Westeros.
And this one's significantly more concise - as for the other tidbit, that can be changed on a whim. What say the rest of you?
edited 17th Jul '16 8:38:27 AM by Scraggle
This is about as concise as I can get while still squeezing that in.
- Ramsay Snow is the bastard son of Lord Roose Bolton and the most vicious member of House Bolton. A sadist with a knack for torture and flaying others alive, Ramsay captured Winterfell and proceeded to play twisted games with the captive Theon Greyjoy, pretending to be an Ironborn agent who comes to save Theon (killing his own men to keep up the ruse) and culminating in Ramsay bringing Theon to the Dreadfort and subjecting him to prolonged, hideous torture - including flaying bits of him and castrating him. All that remains of Theon afterwards is a broken, obedient shell whom Ramsay dubs "Reek." In his spare time, Ramsay and his equally psychotic lover Myranda release girls into the woods to hunt them for sport, also using the time to feed Ramsay's savage hounds. When Ramsay makes Theon negotiate a surrender with other Ironborn, Ramsay guarantees their safety, only to have them flayed alive and displayed as gruesome trophies. After marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay rapes her on the wedding night and continues to sexually and physically abuse her throughout the rest of the marriage. Ramsay cements his rule over his hold by murdering Roose and having his hounds eat his infant brother and stepmother. When he finally engages the Northern armies, Ramsay is apathetic to the death of his own men and shoots the young Rickon Stark dead - moments before he reaches Jon Snow. With few matching Ramsay's pointless savagery, Ramsay exemplified every negative stereotypes about bastards in Westeros.
edited 17th Jul '16 8:48:08 AM by Scraggle
![]()
Perfect.
It's got all his notable deeds up there and isn't too lengthy. And not drowned with so much blue.
You're fixating on Rickon's death too much.
edited 17th Jul '16 9:07:04 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.![]()
![]()
Now this is more like it.
That said, I liked ACW's entry more originally because it elaborated on Rickon's death more; merely shooting him with an arrow is one thing but making him run for his life to his brother is something else; it is a psychological torture and I think it should be mentioned. Also, I think that would make the entry too long, but is it worth mentioning how he ordered Myranda's body to be fed to the dogs?
edited 17th Jul '16 9:03:21 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I think Scraggle's write-up does a really good job of shortening Ramsay's entry without losing anything.
Anywho, I've found yet another candidate. Don't worry, NOT a G.I. Joe villain.
What's the work?
Reperfection is a short point-and-click game made by Tinnitus Games that was supposed to have an episodic release ala Telltale Games' works, however thus far, only the first "episode" has been released......that was 4 years ago. Yeah...
Anywho, the game's story is about a man named Ben. Ben has a good life, a loving wife named Sarah, and a young son named Danny. When Sarah is killed in a car crash, Ben is devastated.
However, Ben takes a final look at Sarah in her coffin before her burial, and, looking into her eyes, is taken back in time to the morning before she died. And thus begins a timey-wimey loop to save Sarah's life, without simultaneously endangering Danny.
Who is he?
The Branding Killer is a Serial Killer and the secondary antagonist of the game (The main antagonist is the universe for wanting to ruin Ben's life. Duh).
What has he done?
At the game's start, Ben learns through a news report that the body of the fourth victim of the Branding Killer was just found, and, like all his other victims, had very intricate branding patterns on her back.
Through a series of unfortunate events, Ben is forced to jump back in time even farther than just a few minutes before Sarah's death, and as such, looks into the eyes of a corpse that was in a coroner's truck that crashed into Sarah's car.
Of course, too late does Ben realize that the girl whose eyes he looked into was none other than the killer's latest victim, Kim.
Now at the Branding Killer's Torture Cellar, Ben comes across Kim tied to a table, and he realizes exactly what the Branding Killer's M.O. is: He kidnaps and restrains his victims, then uses a branding iron to slowly burn intricate designs on their backs and down their arms. a process that takes days to complete.
He also seems to take part in Cold-Blooded Torture for giggles, as seen by his....elaborate chalkboard diagrams of the human anatomy.
Ben hides when the killer returns to the cellars, and is forced to listen as the killer murders Kim, stating that he's finished with her. It's heavily implied he murdered her with a bonesaw, so make of that what you will.
Traveling back in time and saving Kim, Ben himself is grabbed by the killer, who plans to inflict on him the same fate as his other victims, however Ben escapes.....with the killer watching.
Through a series of unfortunately fortunate events, Ben manages to save both Kim and Danny from death, however in the process he accidentally kills 3 people, and the police arrest him before he's able to look into their eyes and go back in time.
Ben ends up in jail, though he's happy that Sarah and Danny are at least alive. Woo-hoo, yay....
...until the very end scene where the killer apporaches Sarah and Danny, and informs them Ben "Owes him something" and that he's coming home with them to "Get his payment".
For those of you who don't understand euphemisms, he's gonna kill them to get revenge on Ben for rescuing his latest victim.
And that's it. Game ends. No Episode 2 thus far, and from the looks of it, not gonna be one for a long time, if at all. Greeeeaaaat......
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
None. He's a sadistic psychopath who views his work as "art" that he wants to show the world, and he has no rhyme or reason for any of it.
Heinousness?
The only genuinely wicked person in the game, so sets it in-story.
Overall, he kidnapped and subjected 4 young women to horrific Cold-Blooded Torture involving branding irons before killing them, tried to do the same to the protagonist, and plans to kill the protagonist's wife and child as revenge for him rescuing his latest victim.
Now, he's not EXTREMELY outstanding when it comes to Serial Killers across all media, but keep in mind, this isn't a slasher, and the killer isn't the main antagonist. This is a psychological thriller that deals with fighting with time more than fighting against people, and thus, I think the killer stands out as a particularly brutal psychopath who darkens an already pretty grim story with his mere presence, and, considering his low screentime, he makes use of it to be a truly wicked prick.
Final Verdict?
Personally, I'd say he's a keeper.
edited 17th Jul '16 9:53:53 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

edited 17th Jul '16 12:15:46 AM by ACW