During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@acw I know, and in the cartoon he had a sense of honor and was honest when he said he would leave them alone if they gave him the crystals, which is why that version also doesn't count. Still well have to see the mcu version and see how they handle him.
edited 16th Jul '16 4:50:12 PM by Mediawatcher
On the subject of Thanos and animated versions of him, his Guardians of the Galaxy incarnation is actually looking like a solid keep thus far, and it shouldn't be too much longer before I effortpost both him and Ronan.
On the subject of Warrens, I have no problem with his screentime. That usually isn't a HUGE disqualifying factor as long as the villain is given a solid personality. I think what's making most vote "No" on him is his (Seemingly) Benevolent Boss attitude.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!I think it should be noted the GOTG cartoon is set in the same Universe as the Avengers, Hulk and Spiderman Disney cartoons so he and Ronan should be factored into the heinousness standard of Abominiation, Red Skull and Nighthawk, and we should get some of his crimes in Avengers Assemble listed too.
BTW, any qualifiers in Ultimate Spiderman as well?
As a result I think we need a Disney Marvel Universe folder or page possibly.
Also regarding some latest news regarding Star Wars.... don't look for any new examples, I don't think the newly revealed villain for Rebels Season 3 should be kept an eye on for 2017, especially since he wasn't a CM in the Legends and it would be against his entire character there if he was a CM, so I highly doubt they would give him Adaptational Villainy in the new canon. But then again, too early to judge.
That said, really happy to see him back.
edited 16th Jul '16 5:29:52 PM by xie323
Actually, that was already brought up (The shared universe thing), and it was deemed not connected enough to warrant counting the villains' crimes from the various cartoons in one entry.
Ronan looks, and acts, completely different in the GOTG cartoon and the Agents of Smash cartoon.
Same goes for Abomination and the like. They're so fundamentally different in each series, AND the creatoirs have never actually straight-up said "Yes, this is all an absolutely shared universe" from what I know of, so no, I don't think we should the villains from the separate cartoons as one entity.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Hey, I found this on Freeway.
- Complete Monster: Bob Wolverton because he loves killing little girls and is also a necrophile with no redeeming traits.
Now, he probably counts, but I was thinking of giving the film a watch to be sure.
Why so serious?@ACW: Small correction. When I did the writeup for Cassandra, I put "his wife. Madison," instead of "wife, Madison," I put a period there instead of a comma. >__<
And yes, I've seen the Season 3 trailer for Rebels. I have no idea who Thrawn is. But the fans seem to be losing their shit with ecstasy.
edited 16th Jul '16 7:37:19 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.As I understand it, a big part of Thrawn's popularity comes from him being a Magnificent Bastard who comes off as an Affably Evil version of Sherlock Holmes. Personally, there's one line of his that I really love and will try to make reference to in my own writings:
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I'm already starting to take an interest in him. Thrawn aside, seems like Darth Maul and Tarkin (maybe?) are returning, so seems like there's plenty of reasons to get excited. But man, if that's how Thrawn is, I may need to check out some of the Legends books.
Grand Admiral Thrawn. A diabolical mastermind. A brilliant strategist. A GOOD BOSS, which is practically UNHEARD of in the Star Wars Universe.
He learns his enemies' war strategies by studying their culture's artwork. He gives his men second chances and applauds them when they get creative, even if it results in a loss on his side, but doesn't have a problem with killing those who fail one too many times. He doesn't have Villainous Breakdowns or fly into rages whenever he loses. He manipulated a psychopathic Dark Jedi Clone into his service, and he weaponized Force-Preventing Lizard-thingies. He has a genuine friendship with his second-in-command, who is the Watson to his Sherlock.
He is the SINGLE most popular Star Wars EU villain, and one of it's most popular characters overall, and anyone who is a self-respecting Star Wars fan should read through the Thrawn Trilogy ASAP, as it not only introduces a brilliantly crafted villain, but is one of the best Star Wars stories across any media out there IMO.
edited 16th Jul '16 7:24:10 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Yeah, Thrawn was a terrific bad guy...though he's also a cautionary tale of a writer perhaps needing to be a bit reined in on the whole character shilling thing (zahn is notorious for....portraying Vader as a mindless brute, and Palpatine as an overzealous hothead while Thrawn outclassed them regularly in strategy to the point Thrawn could refuse an order from Palpatine and survive when Palpatine later realized Thrawn had been right when the venture failed under another commander).
Though one favorite moment is Thrawn interrogating two failed technicians. He executes one man for his failure and incompetence...but the other one, while he failed, tried a new, rather innovative tactic and the man doesn't bother with lame excuses. Thrawn spares him with compliments and promotes him.
edited 16th Jul '16 7:31:01 PM by Lightysnake
Yeah I had feeling that the Marco Polo Candidate might not go through. sigh oh well Better Luck Next Time
Now then I was thinking of doing an effort post on Dracula from Penny Dreadful though I doubt he count due to being the brother of Lucifer who is more or less Made of Evil then again I believe there are some incarnations of Dracula (There is Right?) so I'm little decisive about that.
Say Lighty Snake you watch Penny Dreadful to so what is your take on Dracula?
edited 16th Jul '16 7:47:55 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffHis love for Vanessa, unfortunately, seemed too genuine for him to qualify.
Agency isn't an issue for Dracula and Lucifer in PD. Dracula seems to genuinely fall for Vanessa, says he does, and the fact he immediately flees the final battle after seeing her body indicates it's genuine. Evelyn Poole remains the monster of the show for me.
edited 16th Jul '16 7:36:47 PM by Lightysnake
Fair enough. Plus she's Choose to be evil rather than just being Being Made of Evil like most antagonists.
Now then I was taking a look at Jia Sado's entry and I believe I could make it shorter.
here it is now:
- Marco Polo: Jia Sidao, season 1's Big Bad, is the Evil Chancellor of the Song Dynasty. Described as cold, ruthless, and dangerous, he is introduced brutally beating the army's general in front of his soldiers before killing him upon hearing rumors that he was insulting his style of kung fu. He also shows utter distain for the Mongols, and when he hears Empress Dowager Xie Daoquing was trying to negotiate a peace treaty with the Mongols, he has her and those who agreed to it murdered, along with her already dying husband, so that their son could become emperor, someone easier for him to control, thus leading to him becoming the true ruler of the empire. With his influence, Sidao has every Mongolian village near the Song Dynasty capital, Xianggang, destroyed, with their people all killed. He also holds his sister's daughter hostage so that he can blackmail her to go assassinate the Mongolian emperor and empress. When he finds out she failed to kill them, he tortures her daughter by binding her feet and threatens to kill her if she fails again. When the Mongols attempt to invade Xianggang he uses gunpowder to attack them, with the entire army massacred, causing the Khan to retreat. When the Mongol army succeeds in breaching the walls in their second attempt, Sidao tracks down Marco Polo, the man who orchestrated this siege, and he makes him suffer, before trying to kill him. A power-hungry sociopath who views all those as nothing more than stepping stones for power, Jia Sidao was a perfect example of how horrible people in Medieval China could become.
Here is what I am suggesting:
- Marco Polo: Jia Sidao, season 1's Big Bad, is the Evil Chancellor of the Song Dynasty. He is first introduced brutally beating the army's general in front of his soldiers before killing him upon hearing rumors that he was insulting his style of kung fu. He also shows utter distain for the Mongols, and when he hears Empress Dowager Xie Daoquing was trying to negotiate a peace treaty with the Mongols, he has her and those who agreed to it murdered, along with her already dying husband, so that their son could become emperor, someone easier for him to control, thus leading to him becoming the true ruler of the empire. With his influence, Sidao has every Mongolian village near the Song Dynasty capital, Xianggang, destroyed, with their people all killed. He also holds his sister's daughter hostage so that he can blackmail her to go assassinate the Mongolian emperor and empress. When he finds out she failed to kill them, he tortures her daughter by binding her feet and threatens to kill her if she fails again. When the Mongols attempt to invade Xianggang he uses gunpowder to attack them, with the entire army massacred, causing the Khan to retreat. When the Mongol army succeeds in breaching the walls in their second attempt, Sidao finds Marco Polo, the man who orchestrated this siege, and he makes him suffer, before trying to kill him.
I don't need the last sentence saying he's the worst Medieval china has to offer, so what do you guys think?
edited 17th Jul '16 1:49:48 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff![]()
Also, now that you're here Lightysnake I've been meaning to ask you are you ready to do the Ramsay Write up or you need more time?
14
's and no
's, here's the write-up for Halloween. Only going to be the manga version though. Haven't seen enough of the anime, and Halloween's apparently treated more sympathetically there, with Alan blaming himself for what Pamp's become (not sure it it means anime version of Halloween is disqualified, but still)
- Manga!Halloween is one of the most sadistic and brutal members of the Chess Pieces. Originally a homeless and bullied boy by the name of Pamp, he had a firm belief that the weak become sacrifices for the strong, and promised to become strong so he could kill everybody in the village. He started off by killing neighborhood pets before going on to stab five kids to death and flee the village. During the first war games, because he and Alan tied, he cursed Alan and Edward to be forcibly merged together out of spite. Six years later when Phantom resurrects, Halloween and Chimera launch an attack on the country of Acalupa, destroying it and wiping out the majority of it's population, recounting to Ian how fun it was. To punish Ian for not taking part in the attack on Märhaven, Halloween has Chimera transorm Ian's best friend, Gido, into a grotesque mixture of human and monster, knowing it would cause more pain to Ian if his best friend was punished instead. During his fight against Alan in the second war games, Halloween distracts Alan by setting several innocent spectators on fire while telling Alan how sickened he is by Alan's sense of protecting those in need.
edited 16th Jul '16 11:18:04 PM by Awesomekid42
That is a terrible description. Half of what's listed (necrophilia) is not a qualifier, and the former part is too vague. Cut it until somebody can do a write-up (Lightysnake seems familiar with the film, so if he can provide one, that'd be great).
Sure. Before the last sentence in Ramsay's current entry, how about "Upon marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay rapes her on the wedding night and continues to rape and abuse her all throughout the marriage. Learning his father and Roose's new wife have a son, Ramsay solidifies his hold on power by murdering his own father and having his vicious hounds eat his baby brother and stepmother alive When he finally engages Jon Snow and the Northern armies, Ramsay releases Rickon Stark to run towards Jon, shooting him dead with an arrow moments before he reaches Jon. Even when the battle is lost, Ramsay attempts to shoot Jon dead from a distance and when visited by Sansa in his cell, he still attempts to hurt her as much as he can with his taunts. Sansa calmly informs him his House dies with him and for all his evil and cruelty, nobody will remember him before unleashing his own hounds on him. The same Hounds he had starved for seven days in anticipation of feeding them Jon.
Lighty: If the above is added, we've got a slight issue. Here's the updated entry:
- Ramsay Snow, the Bastard of Bolton, lives up to every negative stereotype about bastards in Westeros. After capturing Winterfell and flaying the Ironborn who had held it, Ramsay engages in twisted games with the captive prince Theon Greyjoy. First he pretends to be an Ironborn agent who frees Theon, even killing his own men to keep up the illusion before he leads Theon back to the Dreadfort where he takes over the torture personally. Said torture consists of flaying bits of Theon's skin until he begs for the finger to be cut off, and even castrating him before sending the result to Theon's father in a box. All that remains of Theon is a beaten shell of a man Ramsay dubs “Reek” who serves without question. In his spare time, Ramsay and his equally psychotic lover Myranda release girls into the woods to hunt them with bows and arrows and Ramsay's monstrous hounds who maul the girls to death. When Ramsay makes Theon negotiate a surrender with other Ironborn, Ramsay promises them safe passage only to have them immediately flayed alive and displayed as gruesome trophies. Upon marrying Sansa Stark, Ramsay rapes her on the wedding night and continues to rape and abuse her all throughout the marriage. Learning his father and Roose's new wife have a son, Ramsay solidifies his hold on power by murdering his own father and having his vicious hounds eat his newborn brother and stepmother alive. When he finally engages Jon Snow and the Northern armies, Ramsay releases Rickon Stark to run towards Jon, shooting him dead with an arrow moments before he reaches Jon. Even when the battle is lost, Ramsay attempts to shoot Jon dead from a distance and when visited by Sansa in his cell, he still attempts to hurt her as much as he can with his taunts. Sansa calmly informs him his House dies with him and for all his evil and cruelty, nobody will remember him before unleashing his own hounds on him. The same Hounds he had starved for seven days in anticipation of feeding them Jon. Ramsay’s only motivation for these heinous acts is that he enjoys them.
edited 17th Jul '16 12:06:09 AM by ACW

I mean, if anyone counts from The Purge films, it's Warrens. But his lack of screentime combined with a potential redeeming quality...