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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63876: Jul 14th 2016 at 10:54:47 AM

That...actually sounds more sophisticated than one would think from an Uwe Boll work.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#63877: Jul 14th 2016 at 10:57:21 AM

I'm not going to say it's some amazing work, but it's better than a Uwe Boll movie has any right being. If you're interested, I'd suggest watching this 5-minute Movie Defense Force video about it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63878: Jul 14th 2016 at 11:00:43 AM

Huh, may be worth checking out. Goodness knows, I'm not turned away by violence.
Also, new effortpost. Yay smile

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#63879: Jul 14th 2016 at 11:55:59 AM

So, I was reading up on Matthew McConaughey being cast as Walter in The Dark Tower and found this isn't the first time he's played a villain, which led me to Killer Joe. Has anyone watched that? The page makes it sound like his character in it might qualify in too.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#63880: Jul 14th 2016 at 12:03:06 PM

I want to get cleared up on things before I make a new proposal. Can a character have respect for a hero but still be a CM?

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#63881: Jul 14th 2016 at 12:11:53 PM

If a version of Frollo were to appear in the Descendants sequel, think he'd still count? If not, it would be them softening him up and that would result in Character Derailment. Yes, in this universe he has a daughter, but we don't know how he is with her yet and frankly, we're not sure we want to know.

edited 15th Jul '16 7:24:22 AM by futuremoviewriter

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63882: Jul 14th 2016 at 12:32:48 PM

[up][up] I'd say PROBABLY not, but it''d be a case-by-case thing.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#63883: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:06:23 PM

Okay, I'm going to say this—enough with the could this character in this potential film qualify nonsense. If you want to find out if someone qualifies, watch the damn film.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#63884: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:17:44 PM

I'm inclined to agree with Ambar. Propose them, include the trait, and let us decide.

And ACW, okay...

For starters, we had a lengthy argument on Not Important back in the day, where this very issue was argued and I know for a fact you would have seen it. It's just randomly throwing in that piece of contention. Second, you gave no indication this was brought about by playing the game. Everyone knew the plot when the game was propose.d

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63885: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:19:13 PM

It's just that Ravok's post got me thinking. And I remember that discussion (I think I JUST gave a [tup]; borderline GDV, but not quite ). Although—and I could be wrong here—I ALSO think that was before we instituted our new rule. Let's see the history

  • Hatred was added early June 2015.
  • A Serbian Film and Human Centipede entries were removed, due to the new guideline(s)—April of 2016.

edited 14th Jul '16 1:33:41 PM by ACW

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#63886: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:23:00 PM

Ravok's post had nothing to do with Hatred.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#63887: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:26:53 PM

Nor do Human Centipede and Serbian film.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63888: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:29:12 PM

[up][up] Like I said, it got me thinking about Hatred. There's a reason each is listed on the other's page as a Spiritual Adaptation.
[up] Those two were removed because of, as Ravok said, "No pointless schlock where evil guy does evil things because EDGY".
[down] Works for me [lol] Big day tomorrow. 3 movies and a show up for discussion.

edited 14th Jul '16 1:34:40 PM by ACW

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#63889: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:33:15 PM

Let's discuss all this on a different day when everyone isn't so.....snappy(?), I suppose is the word I'm looking for. It's best we drop this now, because I already see where this is going, and ACW, you didn't wanna talk about this, but you keep talking about this and won't let it go.

[down] There's something wrong if we can't even mention something without someone else getting extremely irritated about it.

edited 14th Jul '16 1:36:15 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63890: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:34:20 PM

This is pretty normal actually.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#63891: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:38:37 PM

[up][up]Also, Tyk, you added my name onto The BFG on the Discussion Dates, even though I didn't actually say I was going to effort-post the movie.

Granted, I'm still going to do it, but you could've at least asked for permission.

Why so serious?
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#63892: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:42:39 PM

.....Anywho, so as to relieve some....tension in the thread, I bring forth another proposal, once again, from G.I. Joe. I'm not as sure about this guy as the previous ones, but still.

Who is he?

Skullbuster is the trainer for new Cobra recruits. He appears in just one comic issue, but in that time, he manages to be pretty bad.

What has he done?

Taking 7 potential recruits out into a desert, Skullbuster has them strip naked and ditch all their supplies, stating they're starting with nothing. He proclaims that by the end of the training, only one recruit will survive.

The first night, one of the recruits dies due to exposure and starvation due to the fact that Skullbuster refused to let them eat for a whole week before the training, and he refused to let them build fires at any point, including the freezing night time.

Killing a couple of birds for food, Skullbuster notices one of the recruits heave at the taste of the raw flesh, and responds by snapping his neck. He then states they now have even more meat to eat. Yeah.....

When one of the recruits has a mental breakdown and gies insane from Skullbuster's brutal training, one of the other recruits mercy kills him before Skullbuster gets his hands on him.

Marching the recruits through the desert for numerous more days, Skullbuster has them attack a Taliban base for supplies and they all kill more than 20 people in the raid.

Later, the recruits come across a lone, poor, village being brought supplies by the United Nations. Skullbuster has the troops lay siege to the place, killing everyone in sight (Children were in this village, mind you).

On the final stretch to the pickup location, 3 more recruits die, much to Skullbuster's amusement, leaving only himself and 2 recruits, brothers, left.

They reach the pickup location and hop aboard a helicopter, with the brothers relieved he didn't kill one of them just to make himself right about the "Only one of you will survive" bit.

Of course, they then reaklize the horrifying truth: Skullbuster does this weekly. He takes troops out into isolated locations, and ensures that most of them die, with the sole survivors being brough into the Cobra fold.

One of the brothers realizes that any organization that employs a psychopath like Skullbuster isn't one he wants to work for, and jumps out the chopper to his death.

Skullbuster then tauntingly proclaims to the surviving brother "Only one survivor".

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Nope. The closest thing is that he doesn't kill one of the brothers to make his "one survivor" claim right, but that's quickly revealed to be non-redeeming when he acts like he knew the second brother would jump to his death, something that he laughs about.

Heinousness?

This is the major issue with him. When compared to more recurring villains like Major Bludd or Storm Shadow, he doesn't stack up extremely well. But, I'd argue this is due to his lack of resources.

He's in one issue, and even then, has very few pages featuring him. He's also pretty low on the Cobra hierarchy, being basically a glorified interviewer for potential Cobra recruits. Everyone else who ends up being worse than him have way more resources than he, and yet, even then, he still sticks out pretty well due to his blatant sadism and homicidal personality.

Overall, he regularly (WEEKLY) leads around half-a-dozen recruits into isolated locations, gets most of them killed, whether through natural means or with his own hands, and has them massacre anyone in their path on their way to the extraction point.

Oh, and mjust to inform everyone: Almost none of the recruits know Cobra or it's members are evil before Skullbuster's "initiations". They go in thinking it's just a military group, unaware that it's actually a terrorist group with people like Skullbuster in it.

Final Verdict?

I'm leaning a slight 'Yes' due to the fact that he is a very low-ranking trainer with very limited paneltime, but makes the most for his time to be a sadistic, wicked creep.

But, it's up to the thread.

edited 14th Jul '16 1:46:24 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#63893: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:46:38 PM

Yes, I think I'm also quite inclined to agree with Ambar on hypothetical "does/would/might this villain count" questions and even moreso with Tyk with wrapping up another pointless debate that shouldn't have transpired in the first place.

And ACW? If something's not an issue, don't make it one. Seriously, this is becoming utterly intolerable from you now.

Anyhow, I think yes to Skullbuster.

edited 14th Jul '16 1:48:00 PM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63894: Jul 14th 2016 at 1:54:49 PM

[tup] Skull Buster, I think, since he seems to appear enough (if barely), and does Training from Hell for sadistic pleasure (and of course killing the village <I assume he knew there were kids>). What ends up happening to him?

edited 14th Jul '16 1:57:15 PM by ACW

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#63895: Jul 14th 2016 at 2:13:01 PM

Yeah, he knew there were kids. A child was one of the first people they saw, and one of the first people the troops tried to open fire on.

And nothing ends up happening to him (Onscreen at least). The comic he appeared in was a glimpse of how Cobra operates, and he was in one of those comics to show the audience how Cobra's recruitments go, and how quite a few of the troops don't know what they're getting into when they sign on.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63898: Jul 14th 2016 at 2:32:46 PM

[tup]Skullbuster.

edited 14th Jul '16 2:33:25 PM by AustinDR

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#63900: Jul 14th 2016 at 3:08:33 PM

[tup]Skullbuster.

Why so serious?

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