During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'm not sure if I should be insulted or complimented.....I'll go with the latter and roll with it.
In all seriousness, let's see, I've done proposals from well-known (In general) films like Jonah Hex and Copycat, some popular shows like Jessica Jones and Secret Smile, a well-liked anime/manga or two such as Patema Inverted, and a good Western Animated film/series like Astro Boy, or any variety of Marvel Animated works. I also almost single-handedly got 4 out of the 5 examples currently listed on Monster.GI Joe.
So.....yay, I guess(?).
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!@Ravok: Just be glad the villains you propose are from (mostly) well-written works that are actually pretty good. I had no interest in Gravity Falls until I saw that incredibly long-ass post for Bill. And then there's Kilgrave.....
Entity.
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I believe Lightysnake chose to do anything Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire related.
Oh, today's the 11th, so we can discuss Wander over Yonder now. Didn't Camberf or someone wanna talk about Lord Dominator?
His name's up for The Winds of Winter and Season 7 of Game of Thrones too.
edited 11th Jul '16 6:10:55 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.- Resurrection F Arc: Frieza is even MORE of a monster in this retelling of Resurrection 'F'. After Tagoma suggests that Frieza forget about the Saiyans, Frieza critically injures him and forcefully makes him his "sparring partner" for his training, torturing Tagoma to the brink of death every day for the next four months. After reaching Earth, Frieza tells his men that whoever kills Krillin will get their own planet, knowing how much Krillin means to Goku. Frieza tortures Gohan by shooting him with energy beams, and is highly amused when Piccolo gets in the way of the blasts to save Gohan. When Frieza hears that Gohan has a family, he promises to kill them too, and orders Ginyu to kill Goten and Trunks. When Goku arrives, Frieza states that after he destroys Earth, he will destroy New Namek as well so there is no way to undo his evil acts. Before fighting Goku, Frieza kills all his minions just to demonstrate his power. Frieza fires blasts at Goku's friends just to distract him. Just like in the movie, he tries to destroy Earth when he finds himself cornered, and actually succeeds before Whis rewinds time like in the film.
Little bit of nitpicking, but the "actually succeeds" part really bugs me. It gives the feeling that he never destroyed earth in Resurrection F in the first place when he did that in both the film and Super.
So I've been replaying the first Ace Attorney Investigations game, and it turns out that Quercus Alba actually has two important crimes not accounted for in his current write-up!
One of them is the death of a man by the name of... well, Deid Mann (I can't tell if this was the laziest Ace Attorney character name, or the most brilliant) who like Cece Yew was silenced due to trying to expose Alba's smuggling ring.
The second however is a pretty big one that I'm surprised went unnoticed this long: Alba's actions have tanked the economy of the country known as Zheng Fa due to getting tons of counterfeit bills in circulation over there and thrown it into economic chaos. This is pretty much rival character Shi Long Lang's motivation for catching the guy: making him pay for screwing up his home.
And so, the new write-up I have in mind for the guy goes like this:
- While initially seeming like a frail and kind individual, Big Bad Quercus Alba turns out to be the hardened, cold-hearted boss of a large and powerful smuggling ring. Thanks to him putting many highly convincing counterfeit bills into circulation, the country of Zheng Fa has been thrown into economic chaos due to his machinations. He also ordered the deaths of Cece Yew, Deid Mann, and Byrne Faraday due to their efforts in trying to expose his role in the smuggling ring, and personally murdered Mask*DeMasque II and his subordinate Manny Coachen: DeMasque II for stealing the fake statue that contained the plates used for creating counterfeit bills, and Coachen due to him seeking to steal power of the smuggling ring from under Alba's nose. Ruthless and rotten to the core, Alba will kill anyone without so much as a second thought for the sake of keeping his criminal empire running.
On, Dominator, I have a few issues with her possible qualification, namely because I felt that she was too inconsistent in her villainy. As for a Freudian Excuse, she doesn't have one (the creators have said that they were going to keep her backstory a mystery); in the series finale, Wander realizes that Dominator was acting the way that she was, because she was actually yearning for companionship. As it's been said, she always returns to her robots rather than form relationships with living, breathing creatures (that, and she views friendship as being under her control), and in her final appearance, she tried to deny that she was lonely. That could be interpreted as Alas, Poor Villain.
If the show didn't get cancelled, then I would agree on that last point. Also, as the second season of Star vs. the Forces of Evil is about to air, does anyone mind if I reserve Toffee until his story arc is finished?
edited 11th Jul '16 7:17:17 AM by AustinDR
Normally I'd argue that Dominator's too Played for Laughs to qualify, but luckily for me, I can just say that since the finale quite clearly established its possible for her to be redeemed—even if she was confused by the offer and didn't take them up on it, instead just storming off—it's a nonissue. She doesn't count because the work doesn't treat her as irredeemable and left it ambiguous if she'd ever pursue redemption.
edited 11th Jul '16 7:15:58 AM by OccasionalExister
Not surprised. A show like that never striked me as having the seriousness or consistency needed for a CM. It's like Sponge Bob Square Pants having a CM. It just doesn't mix.
While she does set the heinous standard, she's inconsistent in her characterization. While she has moments of being vile, they're also followed by moments of her being Played for Laughs.
That's what I mean. She may be heinous enough but to qualify on a show like that she would need to be a consistent Knight of Cerebus.
My issue with Dominator is more about her send-off. I usually don't judge a villain by how they were defeated, but simply shouting, "You're all a bunch of dorks!" and then storming off... that really gives off the impression that the creators of the show don't view her as pure evil if they feel that's an appropriate defeat.
Why so serious?
Well I would say that her defeat goes a lot further than that, she gets absolutely and humiliatingly beaten by somebody she spent the entire season treating as an insignificant annoyance. Loses her ship, her entire army and just about everything she ever had. She likewise can't rebuild any of it, as she's used up all the Volcanic X in the galaxy, and nobody will ever help her for obvious reasons.
Basically she goes from being the most feared warlord in the entire universe, to a pathetic immature loser who can't even peal an orange by themselves.
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I would say she was a consistent Knight of Cerebus, she got a lot of humorous moments sure, but every time she appeared the sakes got a lot higher, a lot of planets got destroyed, generally except for episodes when she only appeared in a cameo, her mere appearance meant things were about to get worse.
Personally I think she may qualify, its hard to tell I mean show plays a lot of things for laughs, but she does manage to destroy every single planet in the galaxy (save one) for no reason other than she thinks its funny, is the most sadistic villain in a show filled with Galactic Conqueror's (silly galactic conquerors sure but still) and is the only villain who successfully managed to kill anyone in the entire show.
Really she might count.
edited 11th Jul '16 8:49:58 AM by MGD107
@ACW: About your question over the weekened, the person who added that probably didn't read the second half of the series, that's all I can say about that. He does present himself as a Well-Intentioned Extremist in the first half. Second half we get to see a lot more of what's going on in his head and his attitude is firmly It's All About Me and he only has a 'heart of gold' when it suits him/his image.
Also, I'd definitely argue he doesn't love Azhure but rather what she represents (she becomes a goddess and he's proud his child became one), he treats her like garbage as soon as she opposes his plans.
Oissu!

I'll provisionally vote
for that, um, entity, as underneath the MorrisonBrand weirdness it sounds pretty clearly evil, not just alien.
Though really, Ravok, which of your proposals haven't been from weird, often dubious-sounding works?