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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#63476: Jul 8th 2016 at 8:43:02 PM

[tup]Dr. Smith, Ge, and the Convenience Store Killer.

Why so serious?
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#63477: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:15:36 PM

[tup] Dr. Smith, despite the fact that I can't take him the least bit seriously due to the ridiculous performance and the Nostalgia Critic running gag.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#63478: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:29:21 PM

'Yes' to Ge and the Convenience Store Killer as long as Cornered isn't a tasteless Gorn or anything like that.

Anywho, I doubt any of these will work, but I wanted to suggest a couple of potential images for Monster.Other Media. Again, none of them are extremely good, but I think that, considering the page has none, it's worth mentioning a few.

Makuta Teridax preparing to crush numerous innocents underfoot.

Makuta Teridax pummeling the hero, Mata Nui.

Alt. of the above, but with added ruins in the background.

Mick Taylor being Mick Taylor

Mick Taylor preparing to shoot a child.

edited 8th Jul '16 10:29:57 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#63479: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:31:32 PM

One more day until we're talking Thrones! Yay!

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63480: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:37:39 PM

The second Mick pic is pretty good.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#63481: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:37:51 PM

[up][up][up]To be honest, I felt that Other Media didn't have an image because it was a page for multiple types of media. To have an image would imply that it's representing that sort of media (film, literature, etc.) but it's a compilation of different types. The Mick Taylor images, for example, look like they belong in Film, not Other Media.

edited 8th Jul '16 10:38:12 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#63482: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:49:56 PM

I'm more for Other Media not having a picture at all. It's not really something that needs a page and trying to fit a picture onto every sub-page isn't something we need to be doing.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#63483: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:51:41 PM

I'm also against Other Media having a picture.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#63484: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:56:07 PM

Went about as well as expected. [lol] Regardless, I'm sure one of the Mick pics could work on ImageLinks.Complete Monster

edited 8th Jul '16 10:57:01 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63485: Jul 8th 2016 at 10:57:30 PM

The first one works for me; I can't really make out with what's happening in the second photo. I'd recommend using the first photo as an image link.

On the subject of adding information onto the existing Zaroff writeup, makes me wonder how alternative the same antagonist has to be in order for another writeup to be used ( ex. Max Cady from the original and remake). For example, there's a separate writeup for Animated!Napoleon despite him doing the same atrocities bit to bit as his literary counterpart. The only difference is it's made more obvious that he had Snowball killed while the book implies it. With that said, is there really enough to warrant a second writeup on Napoleon?

edited 8th Jul '16 11:55:54 PM by AustinDR

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#63486: Jul 9th 2016 at 12:43:32 AM

One thing I think should be added to the Witcher entry for Eredin; after the books he tracks down Yenn and Geralt to use as bait. Geralt offers his soul to Eredin; Eredin agrees and then forces Geralt to fight for him as a soldier (in witcher 2 a woman looks into his memory and says "you were a rider of the wild hunt"), meaning he probably made Geralt partake in countless atrocities. It's a single crime but a deeply twisted one. Basically "I've got your father figure and unless you turn yourself in I'll make him commit horrible crimes."

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#63487: Jul 9th 2016 at 12:45:18 AM

Why exactly was Brian Banner cut? He's on Norman Osborne level of abusiveness. Also, there's one what if version where Bruce came to admire him and turned out like him. That version of Bruce may well qualify.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63488: Jul 9th 2016 at 1:29:36 AM

  • Guess it depends on which mod does it...the full quote on Myers is now up at the main CM page gringringrin. I also took care of the Huntsman's entry and cutting the Durarararararara tongue one.
  • [tup] Ge I guess.
  • [tup] for the Cornered killer, if in fact A) it's not grimdark Torture Porn, and B) it's played seriously (death by donuts?).
  • DeCarta: I don't think Film!Verger counted.
  • The first Makuta and first Mick images might work for the main image page.
  • Hmm, good point regarding Napoleon. With Zaroff, I just added a sentence at the end. Napoleon...we may be able to just expand the Lit entry. Thoughts?
  • LordYAM: Hmm, that might be worth adding for Eredin. Don't know about Brian Banner.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63489: Jul 9th 2016 at 1:41:35 AM

I'd suggest leaving a note saying that he kills Snowball in the 1954 film. Additionally, what about Theatrical!Scar?

[down]Fair enough.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:00:24 AM by AustinDR

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#63490: Jul 9th 2016 at 1:58:46 AM

[up] Theatre!Scar's writeup works on its own because it doesn't focus on the crimes of his movie counterpart, it focuses on the things unique to that particular version of the character; i.e. the attempted rape and him losing his mind.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:01:45 AM by Scraggle

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#63491: Jul 9th 2016 at 2:06:09 AM

I am very much OPPOSED to removing the animated Napoleon. If any version should go, it should by his literary counterpart. The movie is much better than the book, so we should treat the movie version as the major version.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:07:02 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63492: Jul 9th 2016 at 2:12:33 AM

Just because the movie's better doesn't hold much weight. If anything, the film owes a lot to its source material; there would be no film adaption if the book was never written.

Crimes that appear in both mediums: Setting up trials to execute animals he forced into falsely confessing that they were sympathizers of Snowball? Check. Kidnapping puppies to use as his guard dogs? Double check. Enslaving the animals and treating them even worse than the farmer? Triple check. Sending Boxer to the knackers because he outlived his usefulness? Triple check to the infinity.

Besides it being more blatant that Napoleon killed Snowball, the film ends with the animals rebelling against the pigs which is in stark contrast to the novel, which ended on a bleak note.

edited 9th Jul '16 2:24:26 AM by AustinDR

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#63493: Jul 9th 2016 at 2:15:18 AM

Actually, I would argue that the fact the movie is better holds a LOT weight. By treating book version as more important, we are denying that the movie is better.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63494: Jul 9th 2016 at 2:25:18 AM

That honestly comes off as personal biasis.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63495: Jul 9th 2016 at 2:49:24 AM

[up][up] Not necessarily. While the movie version may be better (YMMV of course), the book is probably by FAR the most famous one. I'm fine with keeping both (or not, either way), but the book entry stays.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#63496: Jul 9th 2016 at 4:44:09 AM

Cornered has a lot of brutal deaths in it but I wouldn't call it a Torture Porn. It has plots. The capture of the CSK, The main characters hanging out after hours talking, Jimmy going through rehab until eventually hallucifcating, etc.

As for the part about being played seriously. Donny being killed by donuts was meant to be Death by Irony. Donny was the only one out of the group who didn't give a way he would kill the CSK so the CSK decided to be creative and kill him with the very food he loved most.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63497: Jul 9th 2016 at 4:57:32 AM

Have you seen Intruder, which Cornered seems to be similar to?

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#63498: Jul 9th 2016 at 5:09:22 AM

[up]No. Why didn't the killer of that movie qualify? Looking at the trope page, he sounds bad enough. Was it the TP argument?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#63499: Jul 9th 2016 at 6:10:15 AM

I don't even know if he was brought up; I haven't actually seen the movie, it just seems similar to Cornered.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#63500: Jul 9th 2016 at 7:12:20 AM

Here's what I mean. I didn't change anything to the writeup; I inserted the note:

edited 9th Jul '16 7:30:13 AM by AustinDR


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