During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Tor
Tor
Still bummed that Frost didn't get approved
. But there is always next time
edited 24th Jun '16 12:07:33 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Tor.
Hurm. The animation for Thru the Moebius Strip looks....off at times. And that voice acting......
I feel like I need to watch this movie. It's got that charm to it.
edited 24th Jun '16 1:31:43 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Yes to Tor.
Anywho...
Who Is He?
Gul'dan is the Big Bad of WarCraft. He is a warlock orc who controls the Horde, and practices a dark magic called the Fel, which is powered by draining the life force from others. He is also the slave master of Garona, a half-human, half-orc, who Gul'dan is all but stated to have abused growing up ("Broken bones heal stronger. Mine are very strong").
What Does He Do?
At the start of the film, Gul'dan's use of fel magic had corrupted the orc's home world Draenor, making it uninhabitable. Seeking a new world to rule, Gul'dan unites the orc clans to form an army, and uses the fel to open a portal to the planet Azeroth. To power the portal, Gul'dan kills hundreds of captive draenei slaves to sacrifice their life force to the portal, allowing him and a warband to enter Azeroth. Joining them are Durotan, the chief of the Frostwolf clan, and his pregnant wife Draka. Draka's baby is stillborn, but Gul'dan revives the infant by infusing it with fel magic.
The orcs raid several human settlements, capturing the residents to sacrifice them to power the portal and allow the rest of the Horde to enter Azeroth. During a battle between the orcs and humans, Blackhand, the orc warchief, is forced to flee the battle. As punishment, Gul'dan sentences him to death by burning him from the hand up, but Durotan saves him.
Durotan realizes that if Gul'dan succeeds in taking over Azeroth, he will ultimately corrupt and destroy the world, just like with Draenor. He has a meeting with the humans so that they can unite to defeat Gul'dan, but they are caught. It is also revealed that Medivh, a mage, was possessed by a fel demon, and he helped Gul'dan open the portal.
In response to Durotan's betrayal, Gul'dan orders the Frostwolf clan massacred, with Durotan's wife being among the dead. While a possessed Medivh is about to begin his enchantment to open the portal, Durotan challenges Gul'dan to a mak'gora, an orc duel. Gul'dan agrees, but as the fight drags on and the enchantment begins, Gul'dan violates the rules of the mak'gora, and uses his fel magic to kill Durotan, earning him the contempt of the other ocs present. To keep the other orcs under his control, Gul'dan executes several of them to intimidate the others, and corrupts Blackhand with the fel, morphing him into a larger and stronger version of himself.
Gul'dan proceeds to drain a portion of the captive humans of their life force to power the portal, allowing the Horde to invade Azeroth. A battle occurs, during which Medivh, freed of his demonic possession, closes the portal and opens a portal to Stormwind, allowing King Llane to evacuate the human prisoners. He then orders Garona to kill him, so that she can be accepted back into the Horde.
After Sir Anduin kills Blackhand in a mak'gora, Gul'dan orders the Horde to kill him, but they refuse, bound by tradition. Gul'dan is about to do it himself, but Garona tells him that if he does, the Horde will turn on him. Angered and bitter, Gul'dan leaves.
Redeeming traits?
Most of Gul'dan's actions (such as letting Garona back into the Horde after she kills Llane) are done out of pragmatism. At first, him reviving Durotan's son Go'el may seem like a Pet the Dog moment, but it is rendered null and void when he orders the Frostwolf clan (including his Go'el) executed.
At first, it may seem he's trying to find the orcs a new home after their old one is destroyed, but then it's revealed that Gul'dan was the cause of Draenor's destruction in the first place. By the end, he flat out says, "Now claim MY new world!"
Other mitigating factors?
Well, he's not dead at the end, and supposedly, a sequel is in the works (one that involves the Lich King). However, I'm not holding my breath on it coming out soon, and I honestly can't see Gul'dan getting a redeeming trait in the sequel. And considering he's based on a character who had no redeeming traits, he's likely not going to get any, unless the sequel decides to totally bastardize his character.
Final Thoughts?
I'm thinking he's a keeper.
Why so serious?Shit, I almost forgot today was effortpost time for War Craft.
Anyway,
Gul'dan.
I'll re-confirm my
for Gillies.
Unsure on Tor. He sounds bad, but not THAT much beyond a typical Evil Overlord, IMHO.
Unsure on Gul'dan too. He's certainly bad enough (the sacrifice of hundreds of slaves is probably bad enough), but that Pet the Dog moment is enough to give me pause. Also, from his character page:
- Pet the Dog: Most of his more reasonable actions are clearly simply pragmatism, but forgiving Durotan for bringing his pregnant wife and saving the life of his prematurely born son offered him no immediate benefit.
edited 24th Jun '16 8:22:47 AM by ACW
It's established that the fel is powered by stealing life, which Gul'dan is all too aware of. He knows that the fel corrupts, but doesn't care.
As for the Pet the Dog moment... IIRC, Durotan mentioned that Gul'dan planned to corrupt Go'el while he was young. And later, he orders Go'el and the Frostwolf clan killed, so I don't think that's redeeming.
Why so serious?Lok Sat/Mason has 5
s and no
s, but aside from waiting for August (unless someone else wants to do it), I won't write him up unless he gets more than just 5
votes.
edited 24th Jun '16 9:32:16 AM by futuremoviewriter
