During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
About Emrakul, if we can confirm she's capable of sadism and not Blue-and-Orange Morality then her crimes are definitely on the right kind of scale to fit the heinous standard of Magic the Gathering.
Oissu!There's an Alas, Poor Villain entry also for Archibald Snatcher in his character page. Is he still a keeper ?
God I found Source Code boring. I'd go with no on Frost. His statement kind of makes him sound like a Well-Intentioned Extremist version of a Generic Doomsday Villain, a villain with no character who the writer had no plausible motivation for doing the things he does so they just gave him a line where he says he has deeper motivations and a good cause without ever making the attempt to explore them. It doesn't help that the bomber's identity is a case of The Dog Was the Mastermind. He's a background character that we never get to know until we find out he's the bomber.
edited 23rd Jun '16 9:35:03 AM by OccasionalExister
I'm leaning towards
on Frost. While I personally found Source Code to be a really good movie, I almost forgot the movie even had an onscreen villain. And when we do find out about him, he just came across as a cardboard cutout villain to me.
I brought up the Eldrazi because a short story released when the Gate Watch set came out depicted a Bad Future where the Eldrazi won. Kozilek kills all the Planewalkers in the Gate Watch before finishing Gideon last. The last thing he does before finishing off Gideon is to laugh. That single utterance of a laugh is enough for me to question if the Eldrazi truly have Blue-and-Orange Morality.
edited 23rd Jun '16 10:43:01 AM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
If they're sadistic then that works. I just wonder if they really have enough individual personality to qualify though. Do we have any indication the big three have personalities/act independently enough of each other? Because sadly we can't condemn them as a group of Monsters.
Also, killing Gideon? The badass who fought hard enough solo to topple an Eldrazi? Wow.
edited 23rd Jun '16 10:04:19 AM by PhiSat
Oissu!Also, for these quotes
. Ramsay's first is already at A Song of Ice and Fire.
So I thought we could make a few minor edits for corrections on a few pages. My first suggestions is EXTREMELY minor so if no one feels the need to correct it cause it's so minor, I understand. In Angel's CM list, it says Marcus tried to kill a group of boy scouts. They were actually girl scouts. Again, very minor.
My second suggestion is on Freddy Krueger's writeup. When describing his actions in Nightmare 6, I think what could be added is how he killed his own wife in front of his daughter when she discovered he was the Springwood Slasher, and forced her never to tell anyone after he's killed her own mother. And how when she's grown, he attempts to enter her mind so he can leave Springwood and kill other people in their dreams.
to ACW: Gillies killed Professor, Robert and Darcy, plus tried to kill Julia, forced William into Sadistic Choice between Julia nad himself, and held woman from the train hostiage with intent of killing, that's how much i remember, 3 succesfull 3 unsuccessfull kills. With Murdoch Mysteries being episodic detective story most bad guys score 1 kill, so he's way above average. If it was enough for Dahlia Hawthorne i say it was enough for him.
Well, Dahlia was in a whole different work. But 3 murders, 3 attempted murders, plus the Sadistic Choice for a little extra? Seems like enough. Confirm my
edited 23rd Jun '16 12:01:19 PM by ACW
@N Ninja, you said there was a guy who raped a child, killed his partner, and framed his elderly grandmother for the murder but yet was redeemed? A few murders and Sadistic Choice doesn't sound much, if any more heinous than that.

Leaning
edited 23rd Jun '16 6:16:28 AM by ACW