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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61326: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:04:30 AM

[up]Done.

Edit: Let's continue the clean-up.

"You, sir, are not fit to command any creature! You are a coward and an evil maniac. Even if my paws were tied I would think twice before soiling them upon the likes of you. Tcha! You are beneath contempt, you... you... rat!"
Basil Stag Hare deriding Cluny the Scourge, Redwall

Reason: The Reason You Suck, overlapped with You Monster! quote.

"You're not going to scream. You didn't scream before."
Andy Evans to Melinda Sordino, Speak

Reason: No context.

"Then the queen, with a heart of Medea, told the cook to kill [the king's children], and to make them into several tasteful dishes for her wretched husband."
—A passage from Sun, Moon, and Talia about The queen

Reason: it's a passage, not a quote.

"There are a lot of ugly things in this world, son. I wish I could keep 'em all away from you. That's never possible."
Atticus Finch to his son Jem, referring to Bob Ewell, To Kill a Mockingbird

Reason: Well, by context, I can only tell that he want to protect his son from a dangerous person.

"So really you're just... a killer. A monster. The stuff of nightmares."
Dexter, to George King ("The Skinner"), "Do You Take Dexter Morgan?"

Reason: Again, You Monster! quote.

"Your brother was not a wise King. Your brother was not a good King. If he had been, perhaps he would still be alive."
Tywin Lannister to Tommen Baratheon, referring to Joffrey Baratheon, Game of Thrones, "Breaker of Chains"

Reason: Without the links to the tropes, the quote is just about a bad ruler, not a complete monster.

"And at the end of fear...oblivion."
Scarecrow, Batman: Arkham Asylum

Reason: In this quote...oblivion.

"You've gotten a lot farther than you should have, but then you haven't met Frank Horrigan either. Your ride's over, mutie. Time to die."
Frank Horrigan, Fallout 2

Reason: Faux Affably Evil quote.

"I am the Devil!"
Dr. Weil, Mega Man Zero

Reason: Card-Carrying Villain quote.

Iris... you are not a human after all...
Freudia Neuwahl's comment about Iris Zeppelin after laying Count Michael Zeppelin back to rest in Rosenkreuzstilette Freudenstachel

Reason: You Monster! quote.

Leonardo: You don't understand. The Utrom Shredder isn't like your Shredder. He's vicious.
Donatello: Lethal.
Michelangelo: Competent!

Reason: They are just comparing Shredder (2003) to Shredder (1987). It's not enough for the Complete Monsterdom.

"At least you still fight like a Roman. Now die like one."
Nihilus to Tacticus, The Story Keepers

Reason: Reading the quote, it's simply a racist taunt in a death battle. It's pretty jerkish, but not quite complete monsterish.

" I'm the queen bee!! The other bees show their affection to me and I will enjoy their honey! I AM the queen of this art room! It should be an honor to serve me! Those who don't feel honored are fools who need to know their place!!!"
Nafumi Shintani, Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni

Reason: Looks like A God I am quote more than anything else to me.

"And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover
To entertain these fair well-spoken days,
I am determined to prove a villain
And hate the idle pleasures of these days."
Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Richard III

Reason: So, he just want to be a villain. Cool, but not all villains are CM.

edited 13th Jun '16 12:21:46 PM by MiraiYuji

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#61327: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:09:11 AM

Eh, I guess that makes sense. Too bad that quote doesn't make it clear that HE'S the one who strangled her. You can also cut the other Buu quote...it's the page quote at Dragon Ball.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#61328: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:47:13 AM

On the subject of Ghidorah, he was given, as I said, a characterization in the story. He believe that he's the true "King of the Monsters" and that everyone else is lower than him. And the story makes it more clear that the monsters all have sentience.

Why so serious?
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61329: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:47:27 AM

[up][up]Then I also cut Cell's from the page, since it's on the Dragon Ball page as well.

edited 13th Jun '16 11:49:46 AM by MiraiYuji

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#61330: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:50:56 AM

[up] Already got it,
Just because a quote's a “The Reason You Suck” Speech or You Monster! doesn't mean it isn't also appropriate for CM.
And yes, please, get rid of the Nafumi quote.

edited 13th Jun '16 11:51:20 AM by ACW

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61331: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:55:19 AM

[up]Sure. But if the character does nothing more than stating that the Complete Monster is a monster or evil...well, it's pretty lacking, because the same can be said for heinous characters (thought not enough to be a CM).

If you were talking about Yoshihito's quote...well, I failed to notice something that made him stand out.

edited 13th Jun '16 11:56:42 AM by MiraiYuji

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#61332: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:58:21 AM

For Nafumi's quote, Awesomekid 42 expanded it [1].

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#61333: Jun 13th 2016 at 11:59:16 AM

[up] Forgot about that; I like it.
Here's an easy cut, that's more Card-Carrying Villain:

"I almost relish being called a monster. As though I’ve transcended humanity and become something from myth."
Jack Slash, Worm

edited 13th Jun '16 12:00:15 PM by ACW

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#61334: Jun 13th 2016 at 12:00:07 PM

@Clown-Face: I guess [tup] Ghidorah then? Seeing as how the fanfic's less than 30,000 words long and I'm off work today, I might just go read the story myself and come back later for a more confident vote.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#61335: Jun 13th 2016 at 12:15:21 PM

@Clown-Face: I'll give a tentative [tup].

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#61336: Jun 13th 2016 at 12:24:21 PM

What's wrong with a You Monster! or Card-Carrying Villain quote also being a CM quote?

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61337: Jun 13th 2016 at 12:36:12 PM

[up]To me, there is nothing wrong, as long as there is elements that actually shows that the character is a Complete Monster. I've only requested the ones that I felt didn't showed it.

EDIT: How about the quotes in my EDIT up there ? Is there any objection before I cut them from the redo ?

edited 13th Jun '16 12:41:10 PM by MiraiYuji

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#61338: Jun 13th 2016 at 12:47:37 PM

Was the expanded quote already put on the redo page?

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#61340: Jun 13th 2016 at 1:19:43 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by moderation to preserve the dignity of the author.
Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#61341: Jun 13th 2016 at 1:23:45 PM

[up] Don't do that, please.

Edit: Editing your statement back into your own post just earned you a forum ban.

edited 13th Jun '16 1:27:50 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#61343: Jun 13th 2016 at 1:27:54 PM

Um, what happened?

Why so serious?
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61345: Jun 13th 2016 at 1:34:35 PM

Okay...let's get back at what we were talking about then.

Which quotes from my post @61326 should I cut ?

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#61347: Jun 13th 2016 at 1:48:56 PM

[up]There is nothing to see, apparently. So let's just listen Fighteer and ignore it.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#61348: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:25:33 PM

Nothing was posted. The moderators never took action. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#61349: Jun 13th 2016 at 3:44:00 PM

I personally feel that we've been a bit too gung-ho and strict about removing quotes.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#61350: Jun 13th 2016 at 4:11:42 PM

We also have to get rid of the Minerva Liddel quote since she no longer qualifies as a CM

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

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