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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#60851: Jun 7th 2016 at 4:57:19 PM

I like your improv on Mr. Yin but Donovan needs work:

Nature Of The Beast: In this ABC Family original film, Donovan is an Ax-Crazy alpha werewolf who commits wanton violence and murder solely for his own amusement. Disguising himself as an unassuming college professor who teaches Rich, Donovan reveals his true nature as the Alpha werewolf upon slaughtering Rich's friend and cursing Rich to become a werewolf himself. What makes this action worse is that, unlike other werewolves, Donovan has full control over his transformations and has free will all the while, killing Rich's friend and cursing him to lycanthropy solely for sadism. Later attending a dinner Rich and his fiance Julia invited him to, he forcefully turns Rich into a werewolf and tries to make him kill Julia and her family. When Rich resists, Donovan discards him and tries to kill Julia's family infront of both of them himself, but not before trying to corrupt him into succumbing to his inner beast so Rich would become like him. It's also heavily implied Donovan's responsible for the mass murder of innocents, such as killing a man because he wanted his house. A sadist who reveled in acts from the petty and spiteful to the hateful and murderous, Donovan was a fine example of a beast as monstrous on the inside as he was on the outside.

edited 7th Jun '16 4:57:33 PM by zcooper95

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60852: Jun 7th 2016 at 5:10:07 PM

I've added it to the Drafts page, so you can make the changes with potholes. Huh, think that's the first time I've put an entry there [lol]

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#60853: Jun 7th 2016 at 5:34:16 PM

RE: Gotham

Freeze's aging is frozen. And Hugo Strange has always been in his fifties or sixties by the time Batman goes active. He was an older man when he was introduced in the 1940s. He's actually one of the best choices you could make so far as bringing Batman villains to Gotham goes.

Assuming Bruce becomes Batman in his twenties, none of them, including Penguin (who will be in his thirties) and Riddler (who'd be in his thirties or forties) is going to be too old.

That's not to say that Gotham isn't a trainwreck of a show; it absolutely is. But criticize it for the writing problems and characterization failures, not the far more minor issue of character's ages.

RE: Zoom

Sounds like a keeper. Which annoys me on so many levels. Nice to see them ruining the characters of Jay Garrick and Hunter Zolomon in a single go.

RE: Wendigo

No. That's bog-standard behaviour for Pathfinder Wendigos. Driving people to commit cannibalistic murder is their entire raison d'etre.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#60855: Jun 7th 2016 at 5:48:20 PM

[up][up] Technically they didn't ruin Jay Gerrick, as the real one was a captive of Zoom.

Edit: whoops wrong button. [tdown] to the Wendigo too.

edited 7th Jun '16 6:06:34 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#60859: Jun 7th 2016 at 6:32:37 PM

What's the spoiler policy for the YMMV page of The Flash? That's my main concern there (I know very recently, for some reason, the character pages removed all spoiler tags for up to the season 2 finale—seems a bit early for that, if you ask me, but I digress). Some spoiler tags may need to be peppered throughout before it's finally put in.

edited 7th Jun '16 6:33:29 PM by speyeker

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#60860: Jun 7th 2016 at 6:39:55 PM

Fun fact about Hugo Strange in the comics: he was originally created to be Batman's Arch-Nemesis. Then, a few issues later, a certain Monster Clown crime boss, intended to be a one-off, showed up...

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#60861: Jun 7th 2016 at 6:53:04 PM

ACW, I vaguely remember you taking the spot for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan. You wanna discuss that or no? tongue

Also has anyone looked into Overwatch?

[down] Huh. Seems like there's some webcomics to the game as well.

edited 7th Jun '16 7:04:32 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#60862: Jun 7th 2016 at 6:57:20 PM

I don't think it has a plot beyond the animated shorts.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#60863: Jun 7th 2016 at 8:54:26 PM

I too have heard the story of how Strange was originally supposed to be Batman's Arch-Enemy. While I'm happy the right fell to the Joker, I do feel that Strange has been criminally underused in the comics, and just plain misrepresented in other media.

Arkham City portrays him as a lackey and Batman: The Animated Series portrays him as a schmuck. Gotham probably came to the closest (Ironically) to portraying him closest to the comics, but even then they kind of ruined it by having him not only revealed to serve the Court of Owls, but having him have that horrible breakdown that barely made sense in-universe, and made almost no sense in the context of Strange's comic personality (Another strike against you, Gotham!)

Anywho, speaking of Strange....

  • Gotham: Professor Hugo Strange is the Big Bad of the latter half of Season 2. Originally partners with Thomas Wayne in the Pinewood Farms project, a project meant to find cures to afflicted citizens' illnesses, Strange took advantage of Wayne's trustfulness to perform horrifying experiments on the patients. When Wayne discovers Strange's actions and closes the project, Strange has him and his wife gunned down in front of their son, Bruce Wayne. Partnering with the Court of Owls, Strange becomes the head of Arkham Asylum, where he continues his torturous experiments on the defenseless patients, resulting in many of them going even more insane and being transformed into monstrous creatures, and, to keep said experiments under his thumb, Strange regularly subjects them to painful mental torture. Discovering the secret to bringing the dead back to life, Strange begins reviving dead criminals, all of which come back as raving lunatics who kill numerous innocents, which Strange happily assists them in while convincing them they are his "children". When Bruce Wayne and James Gordon continue to investigate him, Strange subjects them both to mentally stressful interrogations before trying to kill them, along with Selina Kyle, the latter for no reason other than annoyance. On the Court of Owls' orders, Strange tries to detonate a nuclear device that could possibly kill thousands of people, for no apparent reason other than fear for his own life. A cold sociopath who commited his atrocities simply to see if he could, Hugo Strange showed no concern for any of his victims, and is ultimately revealed to be responsible for nearly all of Gotham City's inevitable chaos with his monstrous experiments.

edited 7th Jun '16 8:58:43 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#60864: Jun 7th 2016 at 9:02:51 PM

I've read the first volumes of Batman Chronicles, so I'm familiar with early Hugo Strange. He was basically Professor Moriarty, even being called "the Napoleon of Crime." In his second appearance, he got his Mad Scientist characterization, and I think his Psycho Psychologist characterization came in the '70s.

The first recurring Bat-foe was a D-lister named Dr. Death.

edited 7th Jun '16 9:03:34 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#60865: Jun 7th 2016 at 9:15:39 PM

Mornin' folks (well, morning in Germany anyway grin)

So, it's been 2 weeks after the finale of the fourth Season of Arrow now, so here goes my write-up on all the possible candidates. First, let's starts with those who don't qualify (I won't give them an extended effort post) :

  • Baron Reiter. He is the Big Bad of the flashbacks this season and the leader of Shadowspire. He forces a bunch of slave labourers to harvest drugs on Lian Yu, which he uses to finance his search for magical artifacts. He and his men run a tight regiment, executing and torturing people whenever they step out of line. After he finds the artifact he was looking for, he also get's some serious A God I Am fantasies and plans to sacrifice all of the labourers in order to further fuel his powers. Despite all this being pretty bad, he is disqualified for having a few honorable qualities, like treating his men very well and giving Oliver the benefit of the doubt several times (despite some very obvious signs of his betrayal). He also packs a solid Freudian Excuse, having grown up in an unnamed war torn african state and having to witness his home village being raided by bandits, with the women being raped and everyone save him being killed, after which he swore never to be weak again (and becoming exactly the same in the process, but it still stands).
  • Conklin. The secondary villain of the flashbacks, Reiters right hand. A textbook Sociopathic Soldier and Card-Carrying Villain to boot, who is in charge of the questionings and executions. His most nasty action was probably when he manipulated the brother of Oliver's love interest Taiana into thinking that Oliver had killed her, which resulted in Oliver having to kill him in self-defense. However, the heinous standart on Arrow is quite high, and compared to folk like Edward Fyers, he doesn't stand out that much. Plus, he shows at least some kind of camaraderie towards his fellow mercenaries, as he seems angered by the fact that several of them conveniently died on land mines since Oliver arrived on the island.
  • Damien and Ruvé Darhk. Putting those two into one entry because of the obvious disqualifying factor that both of them have, the love for each other and their daughter. Listing all of the crimes would take up too much space, but considering they have tons of ressources (more than any Big Bad yet put together) they won't cause too many for the heinous standart. And despite that redeeming quality, they both were one hell of a Hate Sink, Ruvé for being such a smug, ungrateful bitch and Darhk for killing Laurel.
  • Malcolm Merlyn. Ooooh boy, speaking of Hate Sink. I probably hate that scumbag more than any Complete Monster of the Arrow verse, especially after he now pulled a Karma Houdini yet AGAIN, despite being a petty, hateful coward who not only sold out Oliver's son to Darhk out of spite for getting the League of Assassins taken away from him, but who also brainwashed his own daughter a second time this season. But however fucked up it is, he does indeed care for Thea and left H.I.V.E. after their sanctuary got destroyed and Darhk still planned to go along with his intention to nuke the entire globe.

The others were the usual Villain of the Week who aren't really worth discussing due to having not sufficiently enough characterization or failing the standart.

Ok, those were the ones who don't qualify for sure, now for the two real candiates. First, Lonnie Machin aka Anarky.

Who is Lonnie Machin and what has he done?

First off, let me say that he is Anarky In Name Only. He is the Arrowverse's version of the The Joker, plain and simple. He is introduced as a former hitman (who was expelled from the mob because even they thought he was too extreme) who is hired by H.I.V.E. to stop the mayor candidacy of an old friend of Moira Queen. After failing for the first time, he kidnaps her daughter, whom he gives a false sense of security, only to break her finger and promising to do much worse to her, which doesn't happen because Team Arrow arrives in the nick of time. During the ensuing battle, his face is burnt by Thea, which causes a creepy obession with her. After his escape, he is then on a crusade of vengeance. The first to be killed off are his foster parents, then he goes after Damien Darhk for not letting him join H.I.V.E. (he denounced the kidnapping as sloppy and extreme). In order to lure him out, he takes his wife and daughter hostage, preparing to torture both of them. His third appearance happens shortly before H.I.V.E.'s plan of destroying the world via nukes comes to fruition. After infiltrating Tevat Noah, the last safe place in which H.I.V.E. and their followers plan to survive the upcoming nuclear devastation, he first kills a bunch of guards and discovers a way to destroy the entire place. He is then confronted by Thea, which causes him to track her boyfriend Alex Davis down and murder him in cold blood, in order to free her. Then he kidnaps Darhk's wife and daughter a second time, this time killing Ruvé after another scuffle, and triggering the destruction of the ark, thus condeming hundreds, if not thousands of people to death.

Redeeming qualities or Freudian Excuse?

Nope. His relationship with Thea is essentially the same one the Joker has with Batman. It's a creepy obsession, and in the end he has no qualms about murdering her too. It's never played ambigiously like Kilgrave's relationship with Jessica or Zoom's with Caitlin. Everything he does, he does For the Evulz and for the sake of causing chaos, not even caring about his own life, best demonstrated when Ruvé tells him that he is destroying the last safe place on Earth, and he just smirks and rhetorically asks her if he seems like a rational person.

Heinous standart?

Quite an easy pass I'd say. He doesn't have any real ressources to speak of and causes as much damage as he can. He also doesn't collide with any of the other monsters on the page, as he has a very unique motivation for what he does.

Final Verdict

[tup] for sure.

And now for the second guy. This one had me thinking for a very, very long time. It's Andy Diggle.

Who is Andy Diggle and what has he done?

Andrew "Andy" Diggle is John Diggle's younger brother. Up until Season 4, he was a Posthumous Character and a lead motivation for his older brother John to do good, who held him in high regards. It is then revealed that he didn't die, but became an agent of H.I.V.E. However, even before all that he was up to no good, as he already sold drugs during his youth, and during their time in Afghanistan, he (alongside their Lieutenant Joyner) became acquainted with the above mentioned Baron Reiter and did the same again, becoming a major crime lord. After a fight with Team Arrow, Andy get's captured by them and bluntly tells his older brother that he never was the man John thought him to be and admitted his crimes without a sign of remorse. After a while in his cell, John tries to reconnect with him and appeal to his good nature, which even seems to work when he is forced to release his brother during an attack on the ARGUS headquartes by their former Lieutenant Joyner, and Andy really helps him save the day. This is all an act however. After seemingly reconnecting with his family and working with Team Arrow on another occasion, he is revealed to still be working for H.I.V.E., which he demonstrates by giving Damien Darhk's idol back to him and standing by while his boss kills Laurel in cold blood. But things get even worse from there, as he personally tortures his older brother with a screwdriver the next time they encounter each other, mocking him about Laurel's death and then directly going after his sister-in-law and baby niece. When John has him at his mercy, he continues to taunt him that he is too weak to finish the job and that he will kill Lyla and Sara sooner or later, which causes John to finally shoot him.

Redeeming Qualities or Freudian Excuse?

That is the part that had me thinking for the longest, as it was first presented as him being brainwashed, John's desperate attempts to appeal to his better nature supported this. However, even after the supposed brainwashing wore off, Andy was still dedicated to H.I.V.E. And as he himself pointed out, John only saw in him what he wanted to see, he was a never a good person to begin with, as we directly saw through the flasbacks with him becoming a drug lord. His loyalty to H.I.V.E. is also not played in a positive way, as he is just a Straw Nihilist who doesn't care about anything, least of all his family. We also never saw him interacting with his wife on screen and he never got to know his own son, apparently having no interest in it and showing no remorse for their deaths in the upcoming apocalypse.

Heinous Standart?

I think he passes, on the basis of how utterly dismissive he is of his own family. He shows absolutely no remorse for what he did to his own son and wife by abandoning him (and condeming them to death through his later actions) and has a sick sense of joy in emotionally dismantling his brother. He brings a whole new standart for emotional cruelty on a personal level to the verse.

Final Verdict?

Like I said, he made me think for a very long time, but I'm giving him a [tup]. Really interested to see your opinions on this matter.

edited 7th Jun '16 9:50:39 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#60866: Jun 7th 2016 at 9:33:39 PM

Hmmmmm, never actually considered the possibility of Andy counting. I'm gonna need some time to think on him.

As for Anarky, he gets an easy 'Yes' from me, if we want to add him even though he's still on the loose.

He attempted to torture 3 people to death (One was a teenager and For the Evulz, and another was a child), he's got dozens of murders to his name, which is quite alot considering he has zero resources, and he tried to wipe out hundreds of innocents just because (Some of said innocents were kind of prickish, but what city can't you say that about?).

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#60868: Jun 7th 2016 at 9:38:30 PM

I'm gonna say [tdown] to Andy Diggle. I don't think the brainwashing ever really wore off, necessarily. It's never made clear how HIVE goons are made loyal to Darhk, with the pills either being the whole reason or just part of it—it's subtly implied that the soldiers are literally ghosts; that is, people who Darhk has raised from the dead with his sorcery or with the waters he stole from the Lazarus Pit. In any case, let's just assume for now that it was the pills. We don't know if the Ghosts have to keep taking them to stay under HIVE's control, or if it's just a one-time thing that permanently affects you. Thea broke off quickly thanks to Oliver reaching out to her, but I attribute that more to bad writing than anything. Besides, I really do think Andy is loyal to Darhk, and is essentially just a cog in Darhk's master plan. We know Darhk doesn't count, not just due to his love for his family, but for the fact that his plan implies he's basically a Knight Templar. If Andy is loyal to him, then 1) he shows loyalty to the head of the evil schemes, who we know doesn't count, and 2) even if Andy is fully committed to Genesis, it's still an idea that is incredibly similar to the League of Shadows from the Christopher Nolan Batman films, and ultimately comes from The Bible—the world is too decadent and corrupt, so let's kill everyone and start fresh. It's horrific, but compared to other omnicidal maniacs like Zoom or Vandal Savage who attempt something like this for completely selfish reasons, at the very least HIVE believes what it's doing is morally just. So yeah, no go with Andy.

As for Anarky, my vote is still the exact same as it was in his initial appearance in 4x02—abstain. I still think he has great potential to be a Complete Monster, but I still don't quite think he's reached that point given the standards for evil in Arrow, and due to the fact that while his actions in the penultimate episode are horrible, HIVE—the main threat, whom Anarky is targeting—wants to nuke the world, so it feels really weird to say that he fully crosses the line here when Ruvé and Darhk are doing much worse things. And while targeting children is horrific, he's not the first Arrow villain to do this (remember Mr. Blank from season 1?). Since he gets away in the end, it's very likely we'll end up seeing him again in season 5, and presumably, his arc WILL end at some point (either he'll die, be imprisoned, or the series will end), and I think at that point we can vote on him from a more complete picture. But as of right now, I'm still not fully convinced.

edited 7th Jun '16 9:44:46 PM by speyeker

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#60869: Jun 7th 2016 at 9:53:31 PM

[up]The difference between Anarky and Darhk are their motivations. Darhk believes in an overall goal (despite being a pretty Card-Carrying Villain at times), Anarky wants to sow death and destruction just for the heck of it. And like I said, he has no real ressources to speak off and still manages to endanger thousands of people. He isn't solely targeting HIVE as a organisation, he is targeting civilians.

And in Andy's case it was quite literally confirmed that his death was faked. Also, not everyone takes those pills, like seen with the family in their secret dome. If he would just have followed their overall goal it would have been one thing, but the utter dismissal of his familly really pushes it.

I'm gonna go off to work now, so cu later.

edited 7th Jun '16 9:55:30 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#60870: Jun 7th 2016 at 10:34:26 PM

But honestly here, let's talk about the real candidate on Arrow this season.

Who is she?

Felicity "Olibuuurrrr" Smoak is the secret Big Bad of Season 4. Though starting out the series in Season 1 as a seemingly lovabl!e dork, Smoak eventually evolved into the monster we know today.

What has she done?

Ooooh boy, strap yourselves in, folks.

First of all, throughout the season, Smoak continually emotionally abuses her boyfriend, Oliver Queen, constantly belittling him for minor things like lying and such, all while ignoring the fact that she herself lies all the time.

This reaches a head when Oliver tells her a lie in order to protect not only a child, but the lives of thousands of people, and Smoak happily takes advantage of his distraught state to break up with him, and, though paralyzed, literally stands up and walks out on him just to hurt him even more.

Smoak is also immensely powerful, with her strength being so incredible that she is able to reach through the 4th wall and make the writers completely moronic when dealing with the series, and uses this ability to coerce them into killing off fan-favorite character Laurel Lance in order to remove her from Oliver's possible affections.

Though it is not outright stated, it is easy to deduce that Smoak is actually a co-conspirator with Dahrk, using his plans to wipe out humanity for her own ends to use her god-like hacking skills to stop him to make herself the center of attention.

Smoak's biggest sociopathic moment comes when, after "accidentally" redirecting a nuke from hitting a highly-populated city into hitting highly-populated town, killing thousands of people, within a day she acts as though it never happened.

Even when her former ex-boyfriend sacrifices himself to stop Dahrk, Smoak goes on like he simply passed out, showing zero concern for the fact that he had died (And she had somewhat of a hand in it, too!)

Smoak stops Darhk's attempted nuclear holocaust with ease, leaving him to be murdered sloppily by Oliver Queen, who she has slowly been manipulating into loving her again.

In the end, Smoak drives all other members of Team Arrow away, leaving Oliver, now the Mayor of the city, to be fully manipulated by her without any distractions into making the city a monument to her obvious pure and kindheartedness.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

None. She acts all goody-two-shoes and pure all the time (And has even convinced all other characters that she is such, as well!), when in reality, she is just as dark and petty as many characters she calls out.

She even manipulates her own parents into fighting each other! OVER HER!

Heinousness?

Her emotionally abusive nature and obvious backing of Darhk's plan make her zoom past most Arrowverse baddies. Easy pass.

Final Verdicr?

Easy 'Yes' to, in her own words, "The Bitch with Wifi"

edited 7th Jun '16 10:36:52 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
dantecito Since: Dec, 2014
#60871: Jun 7th 2016 at 10:46:00 PM

I must admit that bothers me a bit the fact that"Jay Garrick" turned be a monster.

At least "Harrison Wells" was ambiguously evil, but "Jay Garrick" was only a example of Bait the Dog.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#60872: Jun 7th 2016 at 10:46:39 PM

RE: Anarky

Sounds like they took Anarky II and gave him Anarky I's name.

Still better than their treatment of Zoom. Hunter Zolomon in the comics was always a Well-Intentioned Extremist, if a spectacularly screwed up one.

edited 7th Jun '16 10:47:13 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#60873: Jun 7th 2016 at 11:00:43 PM

[tdown] Andy, because I can't make heads or tails out of his brainwashing from the writeup and I'd rather be safe than have him get brought up ad nauseum as a potential cut down the road.

[tup] Anarky, that's pretty cut and dry.

And given what a cluster fuck DC shows are, I can't tell if the third Arrow person is a serious write up or not... I'm going with no? XD

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60875: Jun 8th 2016 at 12:24:37 AM

Tyk: Nah, I started Mutants in Manhattan, but couldn't get into it.


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