During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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Don't feel too bad. At least you don't have you know who running for President (not that the opposition's so great either).
60422@ I'm Canadian. so I actually remember that.
The original TMNT comic is really weird, stories interrupt other stories, one story will just intrude on another, I feel like only the stories with the Foot and Baxter Stockman were really cohesive.
The right wing militia guys have really weird names too, the guy in charge was called Skonk and his followers are called: Chet, Pewk, Spuds and Bubba. Despite all that they were were a bunch of Apocalyptic fanatics who wanted to prove their worth as survivalists in a post nuclear war setting and felt that since the Cold War wasn't going anywhere (that issue was written in 1987), so they were going to start their own apocalypse.
They only appeared in one issue though.
edited 3rd Jun '16 9:50:02 AM by Overlord
While we're on the subject of the main page quote, I've always thought a quote about how Michael can't tell the difference between right and wrong is a poor choice. I'm not saying Michael himself doesn't count, it's just that that particular quote being used to represent a trope where moral agency is a huge factor seems wrong, IMO. But if the rest of you think it works, I'll let it be.
for Vandal, definitely.
edited 3rd Jun '16 11:19:43 AM by LordXavius
Here's the full quote, incidentally:
edited 3rd Jun '16 12:38:11 PM by ACW
Since we have quotes from both Michael and Wynn, how is this quote from Conal Cochran?:
Speaking of quotes, I've created Monster Quotes Redo, so we can go through and cut what doesn't fit without messing with the main quotes page (incidentally, Jack Slash from LiteratureWorm was approved I think, but never given a real writeup...and there's now another example at the YMMV page).
Well just for starters that quote from Babidi needs to go. Seeing as he isn't on the page.
This Ronan quote has to go too: "I will unfurl one thousand years of Kree justice on Xandar, AND BURN IT TO ITS CORE! And then, Thanos, I'm coming for you." Without context it sounds like it could be justifiable.
edited 3rd Jun '16 1:28:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
There's this quote from Emperor Ganishka that should probably be removed:
"I am the King of Kings! In this world, I am the one absolute principal!"
That sounds more like a Badass Boast than something actually villainous.
Why so serious?
Agreed. ![]()
Partially agree on Ronan (I could go either way), but Babidi IS at Dragon Ball. Speaking of which, that quote by Frieza from Bardock: Keep with the context link, or cut?
edited 3rd Jun '16 1:39:49 PM by ACW
I think the Quotes page in general has become ridiculously bloated because of this obsession with finding quotes and pictures for every single subpage. Not to mention that I feel many new subpages are drafted simply to use a quote or an image.
The very first entry on the page (Akame Ga Kill) sounds like it illustrates The Man Behind the Man far better than "The most heinous characters played seriously with no redeeming or altruistic qualities".
And then there's stuff like the one for Creatures of Appetite, which isn't really a quote so much as a bleeding recap.
edited 3rd Jun '16 1:48:39 PM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"Two quotes that I can see going are the ones said by Discord at the Fan Works section, since it was decided to cut the examples from the fan work.
edited 3rd Jun '16 1:58:51 PM by AustinDR
Fuck it, here are some quotes that are either generic or not effective out of context that I suggest we cut.
And that was all from the anime section alone. As much as I'm pissed off about the troper who did the purging on the quotes section, I see the point he made on his/her edit reason.
to new Dark Souls write-ups.
Alright, seeing as most of us are in agreement that the quote page is pretty bloated and has quite a few.....odd examples, and the fact that I myself have proposed some....less than adequate quotes, I'll weigh in. This is gonna be a long post, so I apologize in advance. I'mma focus solely on Anime/Manga ones I feel are unecessary in this particular post.
Any that I don't discuss here, I support keeping (Though I'm flexible in that regard) And yes, I know it's not my decision or anything, just giving my opinions on them.
"Cracks neck" Here we go.
This one is nothing but a Man Behind the Man proclamation. Nothing about how Honest is COMPLETELY monstrous or stands out as extremely villainous. I say 'Cut' this one.
Seems like more of an A God Am I proclamation or something to that extent. I say 'Cut' this one.
Nothing that heinous here. Just a baddie proclaiming he wishes he had butchered someone. I say 'Cut' this one.
Here's the thing about these: None of them are in the actual L Ns. I've read them, so I would know. I don't know why these are listed as his quotes on Villains Wiki and such, but they are not in any material featuring Westcott that I've read. Heck one of them is a freaking Josef Stalin quote just with a few added words. I say 'Cut' all of these due to lack of proof that these are actual quotes of his.
I feel like this one doesm't work without context. I mean, you have to explain what the heck he's talking about for anyone to get it. I say 'Cut'.
Nothing sticks out here beyond basic villain boast. I say 'Cut'.
Even though I myself proposed this one, I feel like it's better fitted in Übermensch or something of the like. I say 'Cut'.
I could go either way on thiis one, but I'm leaning 'Cut' due to generic-ness.
This seems like a basic "Soldiers, kill everything in sight!" proclamation. I say 'Cut' for generic-ness.
Don't love this one, though not sure why. Leaning 'Cut'.
Without context, it sounds like a BDSM session or something. I say 'Cut' due to "Needs context".
This is a "Reason You Suck" Speech more than a "PURE EVIL" quote. I say 'Cut'.
I say 'Cut' for same reason as Segai Waltz Makoto quote; It's generic "Soldiers, kill everything!" quote.
As someone who doesn't read Naruto (Yeah, yeah, sue me), I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Is something "Mystical" going on causing the others' "agony to radiate through (his) body", or is he just a sadist? I say 'Cut'.
Again, another one I (Sort of) proposed, but it's not really that us sounding. It sounds like a villain boasting that no one will know he's evil rather than anything about how evil or the like. I say 'Cut'.
Great quote, but I KIND OF feel like it's better suited to a Nihilist quote page rather than a CM one. Leaning 'Cut'.
PoH: I know it's your favorite but last time we did that you killed the winner anyway.
Johnny Black: Oh come on! You spoiled it! It's no fun if they know they're gonna die!
Eh. Basic "I get more out of killing than I should". I say 'Cut'.
edited 3rd Jun '16 4:28:38 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
