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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60426: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:39:16 AM

[up][up] Don't feel too bad. At least you don't have you know who running for President (not that the opposition's so great either).

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#60427: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:47:56 AM

60422@ I'm Canadian. so I actually remember that.

The original TMNT comic is really weird, stories interrupt other stories, one story will just intrude on another, I feel like only the stories with the Foot and Baxter Stockman were really cohesive.

The right wing militia guys have really weird names too, the guy in charge was called Skonk and his followers are called: Chet, Pewk, Spuds and Bubba. Despite all that they were were a bunch of Apocalyptic fanatics who wanted to prove their worth as survivalists in a post nuclear war setting and felt that since the Cold War wasn't going anywhere (that issue was written in 1987), so they were going to start their own apocalypse.

They only appeared in one issue though.

edited 3rd Jun '16 9:50:02 AM by Overlord

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60428: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:56:16 AM

"Skonk" actually sounds like a post-apocalyptic name. Bubba too in a way. Even Pewk for a member of a gang. Not so much Chet or, um, Spuds.
Incidentally, I think Fala Cii's (groan) quote would work better in the main quote page.

edited 3rd Jun '16 10:46:52 AM by ACW

LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#60429: Jun 3rd 2016 at 11:18:18 AM

While we're on the subject of the main page quote, I've always thought a quote about how Michael can't tell the difference between right and wrong is a poor choice. I'm not saying Michael himself doesn't count, it's just that that particular quote being used to represent a trope where moral agency is a huge factor seems wrong, IMO. But if the rest of you think it works, I'll let it be.

[tup] for Vandal, definitely.

edited 3rd Jun '16 11:19:43 AM by LordXavius

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60430: Jun 3rd 2016 at 11:25:00 AM

[up] Here's the full quote, incidentally:

"I met him, fifteen years ago; I was told there was nothing left; no reason, no conscience, no understanding; and even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this six-year-old child, with this blank, pale, emotionless face, and the blackest eyes... the devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized that what was living behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply... evil."
[down] Agreed.

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:38:11 PM by ACW

LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#60431: Jun 3rd 2016 at 11:42:49 AM

[up] Funnily enough, I think the part of that quote not on the main page would work much better. Or, at the very least, having all of it there.

edited 3rd Jun '16 11:52:00 AM by LordXavius

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#60432: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:25:13 PM

Since we have quotes from both Michael and Wynn, how is this quote from Conal Cochran?:

Dr. Daniel Challis: Why Cochran, why?
Conal Cochran: Do I need a reason? Mr. Kupfer was right you know. I do love a good joke, and this is the best ever, a joke on the children.

jjj
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#60433: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:37:04 PM

[up]That quote doesn't work without context

edited 3rd Jun '16 12:37:19 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60434: Jun 3rd 2016 at 12:59:42 PM

Speaking of quotes, I've created Monster Quotes Redo, so we can go through and cut what doesn't fit without messing with the main quotes page (incidentally, Jack Slash from LiteratureWorm was approved I think, but never given a real writeup...and there's now another example at the YMMV page).

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#60435: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:25:03 PM

Well just for starters that quote from Babidi needs to go. Seeing as he isn't on the page.

This Ronan quote has to go too: "I will unfurl one thousand years of Kree justice on Xandar, AND BURN IT TO ITS CORE! And then, Thanos, I'm coming for you." Without context it sounds like it could be justifiable.

edited 3rd Jun '16 1:28:24 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#60436: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:35:16 PM

There's this quote from Emperor Ganishka that should probably be removed:

"I am the King of Kings! In this world, I am the one absolute principal!"

That sounds more like a Badass Boast than something actually villainous.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60437: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:38:51 PM

[up] Agreed.
[up][up] Partially agree on Ronan (I could go either way), but Babidi IS at Dragon Ball. Speaking of which, that quote by Frieza from Bardock: Keep with the context link, or cut?

edited 3rd Jun '16 1:39:49 PM by ACW

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#60438: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:43:11 PM

I think the Quotes page in general has become ridiculously bloated because of this obsession with finding quotes and pictures for every single subpage. Not to mention that I feel many new subpages are drafted simply to use a quote or an image.

The very first entry on the page (Akame Ga Kill) sounds like it illustrates The Man Behind the Man far better than "The most heinous characters played seriously with no redeeming or altruistic qualities".

And then there's stuff like the one for Creatures of Appetite, which isn't really a quote so much as a bleeding recap.

edited 3rd Jun '16 1:48:39 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60439: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:51:57 PM

"Not to mention that I feel many new subpages are drafted simply to use a quote or an image."
Nope. At least, not consciously in my case.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#60440: Jun 3rd 2016 at 1:56:56 PM

Two quotes that I can see going are the ones said by Discord at the Fan Works section, since it was decided to cut the examples from the fan work.

edited 3rd Jun '16 1:58:51 PM by AustinDR

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#60441: Jun 3rd 2016 at 2:09:36 PM

Could have sworn Babidi was cut. Anyway, the page is ridiculously bloated, and less than half the quotes demonstrate anything other than a generic evil.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#60442: Jun 3rd 2016 at 2:24:42 PM

I've been avoiding discussion whenever anyone brings up a quote because I think there's been way too much emphasis on finding them relative to their actual importance. It doesn't surprise me that the page is bloated.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60443: Jun 3rd 2016 at 2:26:18 PM

I too don't have much desire to speak up during quote discussions, much less ones adding quotes to their own tab.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60444: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:04:42 PM

[up][up][up] It was Tao that was cut. [down][tup] (especially the first one).

edited 3rd Jun '16 3:12:37 PM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#60445: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:09:00 PM

Anyone else have thoughts on my Dark Souls 3 rewrites?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60446: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:15:28 PM

They look better than the last ones.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#60447: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:15:50 PM

They look pretty good.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#60448: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:55:31 PM

Fuck it, here are some quotes that are either generic or not effective out of context that I suggest we cut.

"I am the King of Kings! In this world, I am the one absolute principle!"
Emperor Ganishka, Berserk

"You're the lowest of the low, Kurata! You're more of a snake than a human!"
Masaru Daimon, to Akihiro Kurata, Digimon Savers

"First Vegeta, then Piccolo. And now, my best friend Krillin! You don't care, I can see that. Their lives mean absolutely nothing to you! You're not the least bit sorry! Even now, all you can think about is how to destroy me!"
Goku, to Frieza, Dragon Ball Z

"I'm the terror of the universe."
Super Buu, Dragon Ball Z

"As a result of that, what happened? You were choked to death, and sunk in a sewage pit...and even now that you're dead, all you're doing is pathetically whining about how there was nothing you could do...if you have even that amount of courage in you, surely you could have gone and contacted the police! But you couldn't even do that? Why? That's right. Sadly enough, Miss Scored-A-Zero-On-The-Test-Of-Life, the only person that you could even muster the courage to talk to, the only person you ever had a "connection" with was this perverted excuse for a teacher right here!!"
Yoshihito Kanamori to Marie Moriya, Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni

"You give the impression of a gentleman... but you are the worst kind of madman."
Noriaki Kakyoin to Terence T. D'Arby, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

"I'm the worst kind of person there is."
Ali Al-Saachez, Mobile Suit Gundam 00

And that was all from the anime section alone. As much as I'm pissed off about the troper who did the purging on the quotes section, I see the point he made on his/her edit reason.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60449: Jun 3rd 2016 at 4:06:23 PM

I agree with cutting Ganishka and Super Buu (especially since the DB page has a better quote from him); I could go either way on Ali, Noriaki, and Daimon; I say keep Goku and Kanamori (especially the latter).

edited 3rd Jun '16 4:08:03 PM by ACW

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#60450: Jun 3rd 2016 at 4:08:41 PM

[tup] to new Dark Souls write-ups.

Alright, seeing as most of us are in agreement that the quote page is pretty bloated and has quite a few.....odd examples, and the fact that I myself have proposed some....less than adequate quotes, I'll weigh in. This is gonna be a long post, so I apologize in advance. I'mma focus solely on Anime/Manga ones I feel are unecessary in this particular post.

Any that I don't discuss here, I support keeping (Though I'm flexible in that regard) And yes, I know it's not my decision or anything, just giving my opinions on them.

"Cracks neck" Here we go.

"The Prime Minister controls the Emperor from the shadows. And he is the reason why this country rots."
Gauri, about Prime Minister Honest, Akame ga Kill!

This one is nothing but a Man Behind the Man proclamation. Nothing about how Honest is COMPLETELY monstrous or stands out as extremely villainous. I say 'Cut' this one.

"I am the King of Kings! In this world, I am the one absolute principle!"
Emperor Ganishka, Berserk

Seems like more of an A God Am I proclamation or something to that extent. I say 'Cut' this one.

"Hmpf, you found her. I guess I shouldn't have left her lying around. I apologize, I really didn't plan on surprising you this way. No, I should have chopped her up into little pieces and hidden her away where you'll never find her."
Sosuke Aizen, Bleach

Nothing that heinous here. Just a baddie proclaiming he wishes he had butchered someone. I say 'Cut' this one.

"Death is the solution to all my problems. No man – no problem. Death is my toy!"
Sir Isaac Ray Peram Westcott, Date A Live

"One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic; 6 billion is funny!"
Sir Isaac Ray Peram Westcott, Date A Live

"I've been called many things: "You fuc*ing Insane", "You miserable", "Your Demon", "Your Monster".... But calling me a "Nice Guy" was very offensive."
Sir Isaac Ray Peram Westcott, Date A Live

Here's the thing about these: None of them are in the actual L Ns. I've read them, so I would know. I don't know why these are listed as his quotes on Villains Wiki and such, but they are not in any material featuring Westcott that I've read. Heck one of them is a freaking Josef Stalin quote just with a few added words. I say 'Cut' all of these due to lack of proof that these are actual quotes of his.

"HAHAHA! Well, well, now that is beautiful. See? Look Dodoria, Zarbon, look at the fireworks, aren't they splendid!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

I feel like this one doesm't work without context. I mean, you have to explain what the heck he's talking about for anyone to get it. I say 'Cut'.

"I'm the terror of the universe."
Super Buu, Dragon Ball Z

Nothing sticks out here beyond basic villain boast. I say 'Cut'.

"Satoru, am I "evil"? According to people's standards, that's what I am, but they are using reason as an excuse to cocoon themselves. People who hide their true desires, in order to define themselves as "good" for affirmation, THEY set such standards. Those reckless actions of yours truly deserve praise. In fact, you don't meet such standards, either. We are the same...I want to affirm myself, so, just like you said, let's end it here. The last things I seek are the "deaths of Satoru and I." I refuse to be punished because of my different standards. I choose to move toward the end using my own hands. And so, Satoru, the thing you risked your life for takes the form of death, and will be my end."
The killer "defending" his crimes to Satoru, ERASED

Even though I myself proposed this one, I feel like it's better fitted in Übermensch or something of the like. I say 'Cut'.

"Everything you love....I SHALL TAKE AWAY!"
Kouran Mori, Flame of Recca

I could go either way on thiis one, but I'm leaning 'Cut' due to generic-ness.

"Today is a party! No need to hold back! Make the bullets pour down like rain!"
Segai Waltz Makoto, Guilty Crown

This seems like a basic "Soldiers, kill everything in sight!" proclamation. I say 'Cut' for generic-ness.

"Just breaks your heart, doesn't it? He was a bug, buzzing around my face; that's why I had to swat him down. Like a gnat![...]Let's take these bugs...and crush them between our fingers! Such is the deaths they deserve: the deaths of an insect!"
Zorin Blitz, ''Hellsing

Don't love this one, though not sure why. Leaning 'Cut'.

"Let's go deeper... that's it... even deeper... yes, take it! Show me your pain!"
Zorin Blitz, Hellsing

Without context, it sounds like a BDSM session or something. I say 'Cut' due to "Needs context".

"As a result of that, what happened? You were choked to death, and sunk in a sewage pit...and even now that you're dead, all you're doing is pathetically whining about how there was nothing you could do...if you have even that amount of courage in you, surely you could have gone and contacted the police! But you couldn't even do that? Why? That's right. Sadly enough, Miss Scored-A-Zero-On-The-Test-Of-Life, the only person that you could even muster the courage to talk to, the only person you ever had a "connection" with was this perverted excuse for a teacher right here!!"
Yoshihito Kanamori to Marie Moriya, Higanbana no Saku Yoru ni

This is a "Reason You Suck" Speech more than a "PURE EVIL" quote. I say 'Cut'.

"Kill as much as you want! Have fun!"
Ridley, Metroid manga

I say 'Cut' for same reason as Segai Waltz Makoto quote; It's generic "Soldiers, kill everything!" quote.

"Yeah hurts good doesn't it? Attacking the vitals is such a waste! This pain, this is the best! As the other dies, their agony radiates through my body! And living through it feels even better!"
Hidan, after wounding Asuma, Naruto, manga Chapter 324

As someone who doesn't read Naruto (Yeah, yeah, sue me), I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Is something "Mystical" going on causing the others' "agony to radiate through (his) body", or is he just a sadist? I say 'Cut'.

"I've thoroughly enjoyed playing our little game of tag, however I already knew it would end this way...It's true that twenty years ago when I touched the Time Ripple, Crown City withered, but no one knows a thing about that. Just as no one will know what I've done today. All anyone knows is that I'm doing my level-best to capture the "evil" Pokémon Zoroark. Victory is mine!"

Again, another one I (Sort of) proposed, but it's not really that us sounding. It sounds like a villain boasting that no one will know he's evil rather than anything about how evil or the like. I say 'Cut'.

"All I wanted was to see the most fundamental characteristic of human existence. Savagery! Savagery in its purest, most unadulterated form! But that woman, blinded by love, ruined it. Unending, overwhelming despair...can the stubborn determination of mere humans cause a miracle like this? NO! I'll prove it! I'll prove there's no such thing as miracles! Those of you there with good hearts untainted by darkness! PERISH! Those of you unburdened by guilty consciences...DIE! Those of you who carry love for another in your hearts...PERISH! Tell me, what am I? Light or darkness? Your hope...or your despair?"
Aji Tae, Shin Angyo Onshi

Great quote, but I KIND OF feel like it's better suited to a Nihilist quote page rather than a CM one. Leaning 'Cut'.

Johnny Black: Let's play the game where they have to kill each other! Last one standing wins!
PoH: I know it's your favorite but last time we did that you killed the winner anyway.
Johnny Black: Oh come on! You spoiled it! It's no fun if they know they're gonna die!

Eh. Basic "I get more out of killing than I should". I say 'Cut'.

edited 3rd Jun '16 4:28:38 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

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