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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60403: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:26:19 AM

Looks like Gokuro and Majd's quotes have enough votes to add; I'll do that tomorrow.
Anyone object to making the quote about Johan the main CM quote and having this be the main Anime/Manga quote?

"One death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic; 6 billion is funny!"
Sir Isaac Ray Peram Westcott, Date A Live

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#60404: Jun 3rd 2016 at 3:35:35 AM

Roots (2016) just finished its run. I'm wondering if anyone might be interested in giving Tom Lea and Frederick Murray a look, as both were the most heinous villains of the story.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#60405: Jun 3rd 2016 at 4:18:02 AM

[up][up] There's no reason to switch any quotes. Like, at all. Leave them where they are.

[down] Well, please put down your bias, for once? This is a recurring issue with you.

edited 3rd Jun '16 5:28:33 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60406: Jun 3rd 2016 at 5:21:04 AM

[up] I don't know, I'm not terribly fond of the main page quote, but that's just a personal preference, so I'll leave it be I guess.
[nja] That's why I said "so I'll leave it be I guess."

edited 3rd Jun '16 5:32:06 AM by ACW

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#60407: Jun 3rd 2016 at 5:51:51 AM

@sanfran: I haven't seen anyone bring up the series yet. Wait another two weeks and you can do the effortpost(s) if you want.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60408: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:15:41 AM

I've updated the Discussion Dates page for all remaining GOT season 6 eps.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#60409: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:34:19 AM

Scraggle is right. This isn't just a recurring issue anymore, it's an endemic one and it won't stop no matter how matter times it's pointed out. And frankly, it's causing me to contribute less and less to this thread because of how unbelievably infuriating it is. Look, I'm not trying to be rude, but you keep trying to force issues on nothing but personal preference, and whenever people point it out the same thing happens again. And checking it out now, the Zandramas entry might've used an update, but you shouldn't just replace the old one without input. Generally it's too much effort to do much but it's getting to be way, way too much and I don't like altering things on a whim and trying to force the forum/thread to conform.

Also, in an example of an issue I missed...ACW, why is Bishamonten from Azumi called Bijomaru in his writeup like they're interchangeable?

edited 3rd Jun '16 6:42:23 AM by Lightysnake

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#60410: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:34:39 AM

Ok, my first try wasn't really a success. Let's try again. The write-up is shorter and updated (the informations in it are corrected or added).

Falla: You seem so surprised. Surely you didn't truly believe that I had any intention of remaining here at this filthy school, being denied my magic and crown, being forced to remain by her side as an equal? You filthy worms, why would I ever choose family over power?

Is it any better ?

edited 3rd Jun '16 6:44:41 AM by MiraiYuji

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#60411: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:35:37 AM

I also prefer the Michael Meyers quote. Granted I prefer the full version but I completely agree with Scraggle and see no reason to change it.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60412: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:43:44 AM

[up][up][up] I don't even remember why; I just requested getting rid of that and making it Bishamonten.


[up] I too prefer the full quote, but that was already shot down sad
Now, to defend myself: As for Zandramas, please don't give me that "without input" stuff. I mentioned it SEVERAL times. It's not like I proposed the rewrite and then immediately requested the change. Hell I listened to Wyldchyld's inpjut. There was plenty of time for input. I'll; fully admit I can overdo it at times (blame my OCD/Asperger's, but fine, that probably is something I need to work on), but at the very least, most of the time anyway, I mention it here (such as, for example, with the quotes: it was personal preference, but people opposed it, and so I'm not gonna request the change). You say "trying to force the forum/thread to conform"? What do you mean "force"? Usually, if people don't like my proposals, so be it.

edited 3rd Jun '16 6:54:48 AM by ACW

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#60413: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:47:36 AM

[up]Where I put my write-up ?

edited 3rd Jun '16 6:48:02 AM by MiraiYuji

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#60415: Jun 3rd 2016 at 6:56:25 AM

ACW, if you think something needs to be worked on, work on it. Lighty's pointed out these issues with you enough times that I've lost count and you haven't attempted to mend that behavior. Not once. Just because you personally think against something doesn't mean it should be changed.

I really don't want to come off as aggressive here, but your touchy perfectionism and commenting on every single needless thing has been kind of been aggravating.

edited 3rd Jun '16 6:57:52 AM by Scraggle

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#60416: Jun 3rd 2016 at 7:00:20 AM

Now, here're my proposed Dark Souls 3 entries:

  • Dark Souls is a dark series, but in the third installment, two of the villains manage to outdo any other for sheer horror
    • Aldrich, Saint of the Deep and Devourer of Gods, was a cleric in line who founded The Church of the Deep and took to devouring the flesh of men for power. Turning to devouring the undead, Aldrich grew bloated and mutated into a hideous, slug-like being who continued to devour countless people alive, luxuriating in their screams. Eventually sacrificed to become a Lord of Cinder, Aldrich was revived and housed within the Cathedral of the Deep where he continued to have helpless people fed to him. In his most profane act, Aldrich devoured the god Gwyndolin slowly, keeping him in a state of unending agony. Not even children were safe from Aldrich, and only two, Anri and Horace, ever escaped the devourer's hunger.
    • Pontiff Sulyvahn, the leader of the Church of the Deep, was driven by jealousy and hatred towards the Gods and joined with Aldrich to exact his vengeance. Desiring power above all others after he discovered the Profaned Flame, Sulyvahn eliminated potential problems by forming the Outrider Knights and gifting them with rings that turned them into feral beasts with their minds twisted and destroyed, leaving nothing but rage. As the Pontiff of the Church of the Deep, Sulyvahn had Anor Londo devastated, with countless people rounded up to be fed to Aldrich and even imprisoned Gwyndolin in the Cathedral to feed him to Aldrich. Unlike the majority of Dark Souls' villains, Sulyvahn is entirely sane and driven by nothing more than hatred, cruelty and an insatiable thirst for power that has no regard for who or what he must destroy.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60417: Jun 3rd 2016 at 7:02:16 AM

[up][up] Now see, that's fair. At least you don't go into that "without input" stuff.
[up][tup]

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#60418: Jun 3rd 2016 at 7:26:21 AM

@ACW: Ok, I hate to go insane nitpicky, but I also thought you put up the Zandramas rewrite before getting input from the forum. So I double-checked the History Page for The Belgariad's YMMV Page, and according to that, you deleted Zandramas' entry on April 24th when you added Ctuchik's entry. Then on June 1st, it looks like you posted Zandramas' rewritten entry on the YMMV page, shortly before you proposed it here on the forum.

edited 3rd Jun '16 7:26:37 AM by OccasionalExister

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#60419: Jun 3rd 2016 at 7:41:56 AM

[up] Okay, that's fair, and I'll own up to that. For the rewrite though, I know I waited at least a bit.

edited 3rd Jun '16 7:43:31 AM by ACW

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#60420: Jun 3rd 2016 at 8:13:33 AM

@ACW: Done. Savage is on the drafts page.

@speyeker: I don't know. Most of the one-shot villains on Legends aren't overly heinous. None of them can hold a candle to Savage, but his power and resources go way beyond any of theirs. Grant Wilson and the Pilgrim are probably the worst of them, but I'm not 100% that they'd make the cut. Hm... I still have the season on my DVR; I'll take a look at some of the other villains to see if there's any keepers.

edited 3rd Jun '16 8:17:41 AM by DeCarta

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#60421: Jun 3rd 2016 at 8:38:22 AM

[up] I do wonder that if a work is dominated mostly by one story, if any one shot villain can have enough of a shot to standout.

I have been trying to see if any villains from the original Mirage TMNT could count, but that comic is mostly dominated by a Cycle of Revenge story between the TMNT and the Foot, that is the big arc of volume and a lot of other stuff can seem like filler, continuity is also extremely bizarre in that series, with the main writers deciding half of volume 1 was not in continuity and all of volume 3 wasn't either.

There was potentially nasty one shot villains, like a right wing militia leader who wanted to blow up NYC with a nuke(the writers give the group a rather insulting name, the Committee to Restore American Patriotism or CRAP for short, I don't know if that reduces their menace) and mutant leech that went around draining people's blood (his body count is not huge though, but he did try to kill 3 kids at one point). But they get far less focus then the main TMNT vs. Foot conflict.

edited 3rd Jun '16 8:39:40 AM by Overlord

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#60422: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:02:20 AM

Hey, one of Canada's largest political parties once went by the Canadian Reform Alliance Party. They dropped it once someone pointed out the acronym.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60423: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:06:00 AM

Damn, I love unfortunate acronyms.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#60424: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:10:20 AM

[up][up] And that actually flew past their heads at first?

Well. Makes me a little less proud to be Canadian.

edited 3rd Jun '16 9:14:26 AM by Scraggle

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#60425: Jun 3rd 2016 at 9:27:58 AM

For what it`s worth, I guess I`m also convinced that Savage counts now.

As for every other villain, nobody of them came of as really that heinous to me.

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