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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#58976: May 15th 2016 at 3:56:02 AM

It's equally plausible that feeding Myranda's body to her dogs was his way of giving his Due to the Dead. There is a level of genuine ambiguity there, but I don't think it's enough to disqualify him, or just too soon. If he mentions her again (when he captures Theon or whatever) it might clear that up a bit.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58977: May 15th 2016 at 4:06:42 AM

That's a...weird way of giving Due to the Dead. Of course, considering this IS Ramsay we're talking about...

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#58978: May 15th 2016 at 4:55:08 AM

Her dogs is what her life revolved around. In Ramsay's eyes it may be an odd way of showing his affection, as he remarks how she was never afraid of them.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#58979: May 15th 2016 at 4:57:27 AM

Doing a bit of research on The Blacklist. I wouldn't call The Freelancers crime offscreen villainy. We see him derailing the tracks off a train at the beginning of the episode, killing 60 passengers and putting dozens of others at the brink of death. We then get on screen newspaper flyers of him destroying buildings, boats, bombing an IRS center, crashing planes. I haven't seen most of the show but yeah his bodycount is certainly huge,

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#58980: May 15th 2016 at 4:58:44 AM

[up] Onscreen or not, he fails the heinous standard. [tdown] on the Freelancer. Also, newspaper flyers isn't the same thing as actually seeing the deed done. You can prance around and report all the bad news you want, but unless you either give some explicit details or we see the act, it's still Offstage Villainy.

On Ramsay, I think it's best we wait for some new developments before we really do anything. If it turns out he does end up mourning Myranda's death in a way that's mitigating to his status as a CM, I'm fine with cutting him (especially since this doesn't change ASOIAF!Ramsay or Telltale!Ramsay).

edited 15th May '16 5:02:07 AM by Scraggle

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#58981: May 15th 2016 at 5:11:07 AM

[up] I will NEVER be fine with cutting Ramsay. The show version is even worse from his book version. Thankfully, I strongly doubt Myranda will come up ever again.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#58982: May 15th 2016 at 5:30:55 AM

[up][up]I thought as long as we see the results or see evidence that they indeed did the act it moves out of being offscreen villainy.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58983: May 15th 2016 at 5:34:53 AM

I think Telltale!Ramsay is the same continuity as Show!Ramsay.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#58985: May 15th 2016 at 6:11:09 AM

@emperors: Let's just wait and see what happens. We're only three episodes into the show.

Personally I feel like we haven't reached the point where Ramsay deserves to be cut. Him getting sad over Myranda, to me, felt no different than when Prime Minister Honest openly wept over his son's death. And then a few seconds later, he nonchalantly said "Oh well. waii" But like I said, let's wait until he either dies or until the season ends (I'm hoping for the former to happen first).

edited 15th May '16 6:12:02 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#58986: May 15th 2016 at 6:13:31 AM

Agreed. On another topic, today is my birthday.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#58987: May 15th 2016 at 6:21:05 AM

[up] Huh. "Surprise!" indeed. [lol]

Happy Birthday!

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#58988: May 15th 2016 at 6:37:43 AM

Happy birthday Austin.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58989: May 15th 2016 at 6:54:41 AM

[up][up][up] Happy Birthday!
Back to Game Of Thrones: Looks like Show!Walder is, for now at least, a Karma Houdini sad. And goodness knows what's gonna happen with Show!Gregor.
I've added the new ones to this week's batch.

edited 15th May '16 7:07:37 AM by ACW

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#58991: May 15th 2016 at 7:40:29 AM

The second picture looks more expressive.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#58992: May 15th 2016 at 7:59:27 AM

[up][up][up] Walder might come back in the current Season.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#58993: May 15th 2016 at 8:13:33 AM

Austin: Happy Birthday !

Emperors: Actually, Walder is confirmed to appear this season.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58997: May 15th 2016 at 9:11:07 AM

Happy bday, man

Anyways, I can't see Ramsay feeding Myranda's corpse to the dogs as Due to the Dead...he explicitly and coldly calls her corpse 'good meat'. There's not near enough to cut him now.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#58999: May 15th 2016 at 10:21:52 AM

So everyone agree that Ramsay is still unsympathetic? smile

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#59000: May 15th 2016 at 10:26:45 AM

Yeah to me Myranda to Ramsay is like how Rankovich was like to Volgin from Metal Gear. So from looking at the posts it seems that the Freelancer fails to qualify which is fine as long as Floriana Campos was able to make the cut, so with that I've done a revision of the write ups of The Blacklist here they are

The Blacklist: The Blackist contains the most dangerous criminals in the world, but there are still a couple that manages to stand out even among them.

I'll post them on the draft page

edited 15th May '16 10:27:07 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

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