During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Wait. On number 1....on surpassing the original in heinousness, JUST off the top of my head...let's say, theoretically, someone does a series where..I dunno, a Die Hard fanfic where the villain wants to blow up Asia. Wouldn't that disqualify itself as it blows any DH movie out of the water in heinousness, even if it would be a keeper otherwise?
Furthermore...I have to say...there's a huge, huge, huge difference between a gorn-tastic crapfest like Serbian Film and a film like, say,8MM or a film like 13 Assassins where the villain is a rapist, mass murderer and sadist.
There's a big difference between an edgy torturefest and a work that's darker as a legitimate reimagining that happens to contain a brutal villain. A big difference
edited 10th May '16 2:40:48 PM by Lightysnake
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I'm going to ignore the implications of how someone goes about blowing up Asia and say that since such a crime would not be out of place in the increasingly ridiculous Die Hard universe, that it would be acceptable.
I don't think the issue is surpassing the heinous standard of the original fiction so much as it is "committing crimes that would never be featured in the original fiction". Someone trying to nuke Asia is plausible within the Die Hard universe. Someone raping Ana is not plausible within the Frozen universe.
As for how we decide what is what, I think it's a case of we know it when we see it and vote accordingly.
edited 10th May '16 2:40:32 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
That attitude is a big part of why I'm so bothered by this. I wouldn't ever give any of these fanfics the time of day, but I think one of the most appealing things about TV Tropes is how it's possible to write up a page or example for anything I read without having to worry about whether others know or like it.
Which, again, is why I'm so concerned about consistency. I highly doubt anyone in this thread would really mind if the fanfics in question were cut entirely from the site - but once we open that door, where does it get closed?
edited 10th May '16 2:51:08 PM by nrjxll
Ok, so as to not confuse anyone, I'll make one last change to the rule.
- For a villain from a fanfiction to qualify, said fanfiction must only contain acts or crimes that could be found in the original work. Fanfiction containing cannibalism, death-by-torture, or rape in a fanfiction of mature, adult-related media is fine, but fanfiction containing cannibalism, death-by-torture, or rape in a fanfiction based on more lighthearted or kid-friendly media is not ok. Ask yourself: Could the things in this fanfiction be present in the original media?
There. Now, we clearly state that, as long as the story is based on something mature, the fanfic can be as mature and contain as many crimes as all get out. But if it's based on child-related media, it's not ok.
edited 10th May '16 2:52:40 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
2&3 (I don't know anything about the Pokemon fics, but it seems like there may be one that could stay)
Sort of
1. I think that a fanfiction can pass the heinousness of the original work, but only within reason. For example, a MLP fanfic could have PG or perhaps PG-13 content, but if it gets into, say, explicit rape and torture, unless it's a special case like TWBB, it likely should go.
edited 10th May '16 3:01:29 PM by Camberf
I certainly don't hate fanfiction. If you were to check out my browser history you'd find I read a lot of it. But this kind of schlock? This I freely admit that I do hate.
We're also not stopping people from making pages for bad fanfiction that they like. We're just not letting them list characters from it here. Again if we can say "no" to examples from actual published works, I see no issue in saying no to examples from trashy fanfiction.
I don't have a problem with fan fiction, but I would like to review better fan fiction, instead spending a bunch of time on grim dark MLP fan fics, which has like one CM in its entire franchise.
Consider all the popular franchises which have a ton of canon Complete Monsters: Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, almost any serious comic book franchise you think of and many anime series aimed at teenagers and adults. It seems like we debate more fan fic examples from something like MLP or some really light hearted work, then any of those other franchises I mentioned. I think the fan fics brought up here too weighted towards darker and edgier versions of shows or movies that are not the best fit for this type of character and can seem to being edgy for the sake of being edgy.
Anyway I will give a late
to Falconer and I think I have enough up votes for Admiral Vlict, though if anyone else wants to give their opinions on him, I would welcome the input.
edited 10th May '16 3:59:03 PM by Overlord
Truly, my biggest problem with really dark fan works from really light shows is my strong suspicion that 85%+ of them are tongue-in-cheek on at least some level, and would thus fail the no-Black Comedy clause.
Sigh...
No, the Frozen fic is not a Black Comedy. It's trying to be a romantic fantasy epic.
edited 10th May '16 4:00:14 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?

So don't know if anyone mentioned this but the crossover section also has more MLP examples, some of which I'm positive we voted to cut years ago.