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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#58426: May 10th 2016 at 11:22:27 AM

I recommend you go through the sandbox, since it's been cleared of a lot of the really bad entries. That should be easier to deal with than going through the actual page.

edited 10th May '16 11:26:59 AM by TVRulezAgain

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58427: May 10th 2016 at 11:24:46 AM

TWBB may not be pointless grimdark, but I'm pretty sure in canon Kirby's not a monstrous beast (then again...) tongue.
Tentative [tup] to the DS 3 example.
Should we go through My Little Pony Fan Works and Pokémon Fan Works first?
Also, where do we stand with Transformers? I think we were going through all the Unicrons.

edited 10th May '16 11:27:25 AM by ACW

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#58428: May 10th 2016 at 11:25:30 AM

Here's a few from the MLP. Fan Works page:

  • A Brief History of Equestria: Talonhoof the Reviled is a Hippogriff (and Knight of Cerebus) who seeks to commit genocide on ponies. After killing the king of Griffonstone and establishing an army, he launches a full scale war on Equestria, imprisoning ponies regardless of age in the salt mines and forcing them to work there for the rest of their lives, and having his army kill any ponies they come across. When a soldier spares a child, Talonhoof beats her to death with his bare limbs before gutting the soldier and leaving him to slowly bleed out in agony. He later destroys the city of Celestine and kills all the inhabitants.

  • Derpy's Album: Brass Hoof, a gang leader from "My Derped Eyes", likes beating up other ponies just for the reaction, specifically targeting defenseless people like Sparkler and her pregnant teacher Mrs. Hazel. When Derpy, Hazel, and officer Six-Shooter come to arrest him, he starts a shootout, intending to kill all three, not caring about the risk of killing Hazel's unborn baby in the process. He even admits that he hasn’t killed anybody, but would like to see "what a face of death looks like."

  • Pony POV series: Discord is depicted as far more evil than in canon. While the version of him seen in the Bad Future Dark World has made a Heel–Face Turn, the one from the Reharmonised timeline has not gone through any such redemption. Prior to his original imprisonment, he caused a war that resulted in three genocides. During said war, Discord cannibalized his own brother Destruction to gain his powers. After his release, he breaks the Mane Six, mind rapes Trixie into catatonia, announces to Cloudsdale that Rainbow Dash doomed all of Equestria for their safety, and does things to the ponies of Equestria such as making Silver Spoon's father try to behead her, and turning Blueblood into a mare of living ice and sending a stallion of solar flames to rape her to death. After being reimprisoned, he tricks Diamond Tiara into freeing him by offering to free her mother from the asylum, but after his release, he reveals to Diamond that her mother tried to kill her (a memory she had blocked from her mind), and transforms her into his slave to aid in destroying Equestria.

  • Silent Ponyville Chronicles: The Colt is a Serial Killer who butchers foals alive and bakes them into cupcakes, even feeding Pinkie a cupcake made from her own little sister who was killed right in front of her, and never shows remorse for his actions.

  • The Stars Will Aid Their Escape (okay, so I'm admittedly unsure on this one; to me, it just sounds like another CMC abuse fic): Herald, as an avatar of Nyarlathotep, gives Trixie the Neighcronomicon and drives her insane just so he has an easily manipulatable Unwitting Pawn to use as a decoy. He rips out the Cutie Mark Crusaders' souls and then goads Rainbow Dash into collapsing the building they're in so that Dash thinks she's the reason they're catatonic, renders Twilight hopelessly insane when he registers her as a possible threat, uses the CMC's souls as leverage to make sure the Princesses don't banish him before he can do the same to them, levels several Breaking Lectures at the Mane Six, has his Dark Young Mooks slaughter most of the Royal Guard, and finally throws the jar containing the CMC's souls over a waterfall just to hurt the Mane Six more. Most of this was completely irrelevant to his plan to summon the Outer Gods and done just For the Evulz amused him.

Though, of course, these are the few that I had glaring problems with.

edited 10th May '16 11:33:34 AM by AustinDR

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#58429: May 10th 2016 at 11:25:50 AM

[up][up] Enough, ACW. We're not cutting that example, because TWBB has by and large proven itself distinct enough to be kept.

[up] If PONY.POV is at odds with the original setting, I say cut all of them. Honestly, the only keeps I see from the page are Checker Monarch (since the fic is an Original Flavor one) and maybe Gralo.

edited 10th May '16 11:27:42 AM by Scraggle

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#58430: May 10th 2016 at 11:28:08 AM

[up][up]Burn all four of those.

Actually, having just skimmed the MLP page, unless somebody's got a legit argument for keeping some of them, burn them all.

edited 10th May '16 11:28:39 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58431: May 10th 2016 at 11:28:58 AM

There Will Be Brawl is a collaboration of a bunch of talented people, including genuine professionals, who created a dark, yet skilled product that shows obvious love for the source material. Kirby being a depraved, cannibalistic serial killer fills a variety of roles for this.

It's meant to do a blend of the Smash Brothers characters in a sort of Sin City-ish setting while also being a good story. .And it wouldn't be as good as it is if they didn't love and respect all the works they were putting in.

And this is like the third time it's been brought up and constantly having to deal with this nitpicking is freaking annoying

edited 10th May '16 11:30:01 AM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58432: May 10th 2016 at 11:29:40 AM

"a blend of the Smash Brothers characters in a sort of Sin City-ish setting while also being a good story." Holy crap, that actually sounds awesome.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#58433: May 10th 2016 at 11:30:01 AM

[up][up]Perhaps more importantly, it's not pretending to be the original work it's based on. I mean, I do not personally like TWWBB. But that's irrelevant. It's not masquerading as the actual story the way most bad fanfic does.

edited 10th May '16 11:30:46 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
#58434: May 10th 2016 at 11:34:55 AM

[tdown] TWWBB, pointless grimdark that has no place in the source material.

edited 10th May '16 11:39:42 AM by doineedaname

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#58435: May 10th 2016 at 11:34:58 AM

OK, so now I found about five questionable entries, well, for me, of course.

[tup] with keeping Kirby.

edited 10th May '16 11:35:43 AM by AustinDR

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58436: May 10th 2016 at 11:35:28 AM

I'm going to read throught he MLP page and give a 'keep' recommendation soon. As unbiased as I can.

And yeah, go ahead and write Seraph up, Yami

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#58437: May 10th 2016 at 11:35:33 AM

So, have we decided to cut Mana Ouma or keep her?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#58438: May 10th 2016 at 11:35:42 AM

At Pokémon Fan Works, the Storm Clouds entry seems like it may be able to stay. The others...not too sure (MAYBE Deoxys). I mean, look at the others:

  • "violated with a pipe"?
  • setting one's sister on fire (not to mention that's ALL he does)?
  • a Straw Misogynist
  • a rapist (though, Frollo MAYBE)

edited 10th May '16 11:38:09 AM by ACW

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#58439: May 10th 2016 at 11:37:19 AM

Having just read through the whole Pony page, I say purge it all. There's cannibalism, incest, child murder, war crimes, and lovecraftian soul-eating. The only example that sort of seems like it could hafway pass as the same setting as the show also happens to be a Ron the Death Eater example, so no dice.

edited 10th May '16 11:37:52 AM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#58440: May 10th 2016 at 11:37:50 AM

Having looked at the page I see no MLP fanfiction worth keeping. It all seems to involve rape, torture, murder, and other stuff that has no place in the original show. Also, the descriptions of the fics themselves makes me think most of them should be attracting the attention of Protectors of the Plot Continuum which is never a good goddamn sign.

edited 10th May '16 11:38:01 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#58441: May 10th 2016 at 11:38:44 AM

edited 10th May '16 11:39:20 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58442: May 10th 2016 at 11:38:47 AM

Then salt the Earth of this My Little Pony page.

edited 10th May '16 11:39:05 AM by VeryMelon

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58443: May 10th 2016 at 11:40:18 AM

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a full purge. I say cut Mana Ouma, though.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#58444: May 10th 2016 at 11:41:26 AM

My argument for the Ask Jappleack example was laid out in my effortpost, which got approved by this thread.

And The Night the Magic Died has no reason to be cut. The comic never goes above a PG rating.

It's somewhat annoying that people could have read a fanfiction, made an effortpost and gotten it approved, and now people are coming along, skimming the write-up and deciding that it should be cut.

edited 10th May '16 11:43:52 AM by Camberf

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#58445: May 10th 2016 at 11:41:28 AM

Yes, I can't say I fully agree either. With the Colt, though, I'm surprised that it wasn't questioned earlier; it's almost a carbon copy of Cupcakes.

edited 10th May '16 11:42:23 AM by AustinDR

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58446: May 10th 2016 at 11:42:55 AM

Yeah. We had a number of things that weren't that bad that went through here

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#58448: May 10th 2016 at 11:43:56 AM

HT, I fear you may be allowing your dislike of this in general to bias you a bit.

We have to keep objectivity about us on this.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#58449: May 10th 2016 at 11:44:22 AM

[up][up][up][up]The fact that it's not only vile, but plagiarism, just makes it worse to me.

[up]I'm not seeing much on the page that's worth keeping honestly. Maybe the one Camberf mentioned. Maybe.

edited 10th May '16 11:45:04 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#58450: May 10th 2016 at 11:44:43 AM

As always, [tdown] to full purges in general.


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