During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Kincaid's crimes are nasty but I feel Luigi_king sort of overstates them and how bad they really were. Purple Eyes, the Societea members, Darkrai, Cyrus, Ghetsis, and Lysandre have all done far worse.
Oh, on Once Upon A Time, Peter Pan got what could almost be considered an Alas, Poor Villain send off, but it was a result of Laser-Guided Karma hitting him full force and him being screwed over in a deal by his son, who has at this point become every bit as horribly evil and selfish as he was. And he never showed any altruism to the very end: he was always in it for himself. So I take it he stays on the trope.
edited 1st May '16 6:58:03 PM by ANewMan
to Grubeck.
EDIT: After reading some of the other posts (it takes me a while to write my posts sometimes),
to Kincaid.
With all the recent and pending proposals, it's gonna be a while before I propose anyone again (not that I have new candidates; I'm still keeping notes on Savage and the increasingly unlikely to qualify Zoom, and that's about it).
@Ravok, Madoka Magica does take a heavy emotional toll, but, if nothing else, [BEWARE POSSIBLE SPOILER] the ending does mitigate the darkness, at least a little. At any rate, you're right, it's definitely not a show that you want to immediately start watching again (and for those who have yet to watch it, I advise you to check out a comedy right after finishing a few of the particularly dark episodes (trust me, you'll need it); I recommend Young Frankenstein).
edited 1st May '16 6:34:33 PM by DeCarta
Did you not read anything I and Fried Warthog said about Kincaid?
EDIT: That's better!
edited 1st May '16 6:35:06 PM by ANewMan
to Grubeck
to Kincaid
@DeCarta Ironically, I'm actually REALLY glad I watched Madoka Magica because, due to it's crushing of my very soul, I ended up watching one of my now-favorite anime, Toradora!, for some good comedy because of Madoka, so yay.
Don't anyone start judging my tastes in RomComs!
CURSES! Curse you, and you're profile pic of that DEMON that haunts my every waking nightmare!
edited 1st May '16 7:43:06 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Grubeck.
I keep forgetting your icon is that animal whose head I would like to crush. I do not understand why anyone finds Kyubey cute. Or sexy.
@Ravok: I agree. I didn't hate the anime, but I started calling it Depressed Japanese School Girls or something of that nature for obvious reasons. I was very close to dropping the anime when one of my favorite characters died towards the end. They got damn lucky that the last three episodes rectified having to sit through six episodes of whiny angst and endless crying and suffering.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.@Ravok & Tyk 5919
You guys sound like I did after finishing The Godless World Trilogy, the series that is now the yardstick by which I measure "crushingly depressing".
What's so depressing in that, out of curiosity?
If there's no contention on Grubeck, here's his writeup.
976-EVIL 2: The Astral Factor: Stephen Grubeck is a serial killer who uses the titular haunted phone line to exploit the power of Astral Projection to indulge in thrill-killing. A college dean who develops an lustful fixation on a girl named Robin, Grubeck pursues her for his own desires after being arrested for a series of murders. In the meanwhile, Grubeck uses his powers to murder everyone who impedes his freedom, forcing the college janitor into the way of an oncoming truck, sending the car of a lawyer out of control (and causing a series of destructive accidents along the way) and slitting the throat of an officer who insults him. Grubeck implicates Robin in the murder of her own friend (who Grubeck killed himself) and forces her to choose between him and her own life in the climax.
edited 1st May '16 8:43:42 PM by Scraggle
Got an hour? To give you a more serious answer, 90% of the cast ends up dead, including the main character who quite literally gives up on life and lets himself die in order to stop the Big Bad. Said big bad is a traumatized mess so thoroughly broken by life that when he unlocks his vast magical powers his pain, angst, self-loathing, and hatred of those who have rejected him wind up poisoning the minds of nearly everyone on the planet and driving them all around the bend. In the end he's beaten when the heroes take the one person he loved above all others, hollow out her mind reducing her to an Empty Shell, and use her to imprison him. That's the kind of series we're dealing with here.
Sample quote: "You should have killed me when you had the chance," said the walls, and the floor, and the ceiling, all speaking with the voice of the half-breed. "Now it's too late. Too late for all of us."
Amazingly, not a single character qualifies for this list, despite being about as dark as can be.
"You should have killed me when you had the chance," said the walls, and the floor, and the ceiling, all speaking with the voice of the half-breed. "Now it's too late. Too late for all of us."
Oh god, that's a real quote? Narm alert.
P.S. Ambar, please add your writeups to the drafts page.
And besides Vasher, there's another possible example
from Criminal Minds whose ep I may wanna see. Double digit murders AND rapes.
![]()
The only other villainous character was King Louie, and he had a more lighthearted feel to him compared to Shere Khan. Plus he only attempted to kill one character so he fails the heinous standard right off the bat. Movie's outstanding by the way. The entire thing (except Mowgli) is CGI, with little-to-no motion capture.
edited 2nd May '16 6:53:18 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.I'd like to propose a rewrite about Jan Valek
- The master vampire Jan Valek is the first known case of vampirism as well a sadist monster with a taste for carnage and blood who plans to obtain the Berzier Cross in order to be able to walk in sunlight and extend his reign of terror for ever. In his first appearance Valek slaughters the team of the vampire hunter Jack Crow using some of the hookers hired for the night as human shields and also shooting the team's priest just out of spite. He kills a monk by beheading him even after he tells him the whereabout of the Berzier Cross and later he along with his accolytes massacres an entire convent full of them. Once he captures Jack he boasts to him about how many people he has fed on for centuries. He tries to force Father Adam to complete the ritual by threatening to burn Jack alive if he doesn't.
You think it's OK ?
edited 2nd May '16 8:16:47 AM by MovieFan2000

And I'm late to the party (blame that on computer issues), but
to Shere Khan (Though for what it's worth, Idris Elba was AWESOME as him!) and a
to Swan.
And for something more relevant,
to Grubeck.