During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Lizzid people!
Killer.
I'm actually not sure about the Killer. I mean, he's got an onscreen body count of two, one attempted woman and an attempt to kill a cat. It just sounds fairly standard and unimpressive for a Serial Killer.
to the Hush Killer. The targeting of a deaf and mute woman is what makes him stand out for me (Even if she's far from helpless).
Anywho, here's the third candidate from the X-Men anime.
Who is he?
Voiced deliciously evil by Travis Willingham, Mastermind (AKA Jason Wyngarde) is the Big Bad of the series, and the mastermind behind nearly all the events in the story.
He is also the leader of the the Inner Circle, a small group of mutant supremacists that would make Magneto and his Brotherhood look tolerant in comparison.
His mutant abilities are extreme illusion casting. As in, illusions so strong Mind Rape comes into play when he uses them.
What has he done?
Years ago, Mastermind recruited powerful psychic Emma Frost to his "cause", claiming that he and the Inner Circle only wanted to prevent mutants from being downtrodden by humanity. They also became lovers of a sort, so yay fpr him.
However, Frost quickly realized Mastermind had bigger, and far more wicked, plans in mind than just equality, which culminated in him manipulating her into shredding a man's psyche apart to such an extent that he committed suicide.
Frost fled from the Circle just as they initiated their master plan: Transform Jean Grey, a powerful heroic psychic, into a monstrous entity known as the Phoenix, leading her to go on a rampage that decimated nearby buildings and such.
Outraged that Frost left, Mastermind projects an illusion into Cyclops', Jean Grey's boyfriend's, head that Emma Frost was behind her transformation into Phoenix. Jean finally kills herself to end the destruction, with Mastermind chuckling at the whole situation.
Later, Mastermind allied himsekf with the U-Men, pretending to be anpother mutant-hating lunatic, and used them to learn that there was a recent spike in Mutant activity in Japan.
Using his powers, Mastermind ingratiated himself into Yui Sasaki's lab staff, where he learns that the cause of her hiring the U-Men, and the recent spike in mutant activity, is coming from her young teenage son, Takeo, son of Sasaki and Charles Xavier, a powerful mutant psychic.
Realizing Takeo has Reality Warper powers, Mastermind plays nice with the staff for the following months, while simultaneously reaching out with his powers and subjecting the poor boy to horrific Mind Rape for those same months.
The X-Men show up and begin investigating, and Mastermind sets his plan into motion after being discovered by Emma Frost, now working with the X-Men.
Mastermind gloats/Makes passes at her, before giving her the chance to become his lover again disguised as a We Can Rule Together.
Frost, obviously, rejects his advances, infuriated that he had framed her for the Jean Grey situation, and Mastermind gleefully tries to kill her
When the other X-Men show up to help, Mastermind Mind Rape(s) Wolverine into attacking his teammates, while Mastermind himself orders one of his fellow members of the Inner Circle to kill Emma and "make her squirm" as she dies. He also taunts Cyclops about Jean's death, stating he, too, would be sad if she died, seeing as she was "Quite the looker."
Wolverine snaps out of it, however Mastermind flees into Takeo's holding chambers, where the X-Men follow him after a brief resting period.
Mastermind begins Mind Raping Takeo to suvch a brutal extent that the boy is screaming bloody murder and activates his powers, begin to warp reality and cause chaos worldwide.
Mastermind reveals that he plans to continue to psychologically torture Takeo until his powers go out of control completely, at which point he wil unleash him on the world, much like he attempted with Jean Grey.
Mastermind then has one of his teammates murder two lab assistants for absolutely no reason other than to mess with Yui. Prick.
Cyclops tries to stop him, but Mastermind first holds his friends (One of which is barely teenage girl) hostage, and, failing at this, orders them all killed while he su jects Cyclops to, you guessed it, Mind Rape with his illusions, forcing him to see his teammates and friends die while being rebuked by the love of his life, Jean Grey.
Through some Heroic Willpower, Cyclops breaks the illusion, and, when Mastermind prepares to fully unleash Takeo, the boy suddenly pulls a The Dog Bites Back and brutally crushes Mastermind to death....before doing exactly what he wanted anyway and going on a rampage. Kid's got issues, if you didn't notice.
The X-Men stop the boy, at the cost of his life, and most of the chaos and destruction he rained down ends. And so, the day is saved! Woo hoo, yay....
Throughout the series, Mastermind is a major Jerkass who barely hides his sexist, racist personality behind a Faux Affably Evil persona.
None.
Redeeming features?
Mastermind states that he commits his crimes because just wants mutants to be where they belong: At the TOP of the evolutionary food chain of the world.
This is....not redeeming, seeing as he's not going with the whole "Humans Are the Real Monsters" schtick like Magneto. He's going with the "We're the Master Race, so we have the right to crush anyone we want to."
He doesn't care for his fellow mutants, either, showing nothing but annoyance when his fellow members of the Inner Circle are killed, and being willing to ally with freaking mutant vivisectors.
Also, his "relationship" with Emma Frost is lustful and possessive, and he is absolutely giddy for the chance to kill her.
Heinousness?
Is the Big Bad, so he passes everyone else.
Overall, he fully endorses mutant butcherers and vivisectors, transformed a heroic woman into a monstrous Person of Mass Destruction, Mind Raped a barely teenage boy for months until he was nothing but a screaming wretch wanting to die, Mind Rapes heroes into attacking each other, and planned to use said teenage powers to cause insurmountable amounts of death and destruction worldwide.
Final Verdict?
Easy
edited 22nd Apr '16 4:56:38 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
to Nalta, the U-Men, the Hush Killer, and Mastermind (bastard though he is, you have to admit that "Jason Wyngarde" is one of the classiest, coolest sounding names ever).
As part of the cleanup of the Transformers page, I wrote a tidied up version of Unicron trilogy Megatron/Galvatron (not very different; a word change here and there; a couple of new potholes):
- Megatron, later known as Galvatron, is the brutal commander of the Decepticons. While he was arguably a Noble Demon in Armada, and a lesser evil than Unicron, Megatron still committed a number of crimes in that series, such as enslaving Mini-Cons to use against the Autobots in his war of conquest, trying to kill the Autobots' human allies, murdering Smokescreen with the Requiem Blaster, and trying to destroy Earth with the Hydra Cannon, only showing remorse when Optimus Prime sacrificed himself to prevent the final act. Upon his resurrection in Energon, Megatron discards any redeeming features he once had in his quest for power and domination. Leading his forces in destructive raids for Energon, Megatron plans to use the element to revive Unicron and use him as a weapon. Now a callous Control Freak, Megatron uses Unicron's power to subvert the wills of his followers, notably enslaving Scorponok and Starscream and trying to do the same to Inferno, torturing the Autobot to the brink of insanity. In Cybertron, Megatron, having developed a god complex, seeks to use the Cyber Planet Keys to accelerate the Unicron Singularity's expansion to end reality and reconstruct it in his own image. To this end, Megatron his followers as utterly disposable, cruelly manipulating them, as well as several others, to serve his mad goals. Along the way, Megatron brutally guns down three Autobots, nearly killing them, to test his new weapon. In the end, when questioned on how his minions will survive his apocalyptic plan, Galvatron admits that he doesn't care if they do, proving himself to be a truly selfish monster. A power-hungry, uncaring, self-obsessed narcissist, Megatron demonstrates the worst that someone can sink to when they care only for themselves.
to Mastermind. Really any somewhat threatening B-list comic villain can be made into a monster in an adaption. Heck, lots of monstrous villains like Bullseye, Scarecrow (Marvel version) or Purple Man were not a big deal when they first appeared.
Well with some PG-13 entries in the Marvel animation page, maybe we can find a suitable picture for that page.
edited 22nd Apr '16 5:54:56 PM by Overlord
Oh sure, it all depends on how competently it is written and if it makes any sort of sense. Marvel tried to make Puppet Master into a guy who runs a sex slave ring and no one liked that, so it was either reversed or forgotten.
I think if a really sympathetic villain like Magneto or a really goofy villain like Stilt-Man into a monster, it wouldn't work.
That being said I could see Mysterio being an effective monster in a Spider-Man movie to contrast all the sympathetic villains from those films. Really Mysterio has crossed the Moral Event Horizon a couple of times in the comics and his talent for mind games and lack of a proper Freudian Excuse lends itself more to a unsympathetic villain, rather then a sympathetic one, IMO.
Someone listed Kilgrave as a Jerkass Woobie:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/JessicaJones2015
Should I just get rid of that?
Well, it's time I came back to cover a villain from one of my personal favorite webcomics To Defeat Them All (which lacks a TV Tropes page, and is currently on hiatus, sadly.)
Who is he? Crazy Light is the psychotic impersonator of the real Dr. Light, and is true antagonist of the Mega Man 3 arc.
What has he done? Prior to the arc's beginning, Crazy Light kidnapped the real Dr. Light and hid him in a closet, posing as him for the majority of the story. After paying bail to release Wily from prison, he got him to help build Gamma, which he assured was a peace-keeping robot, but was in reality a war machine capable of conquering the world (Crazy Light's goal, in fact.) When Wily realized this, he had his 8 Robot Masters steal the gems that power the robot, causing Dr. Light to send Djoing and The Mad One out to destroy them all and bring them back. After defeating them, Wily seized the opportunity to steal Gamma for himself and take off to his castle. After Wily is defeated, Crazy Light appears to take control of Gamma, revealing his plan to use Gamma to take over the world. Before he does this, he exploits Wily's dual-dimension defense system (tl;dr both Wily and Light could only be defeated for real if they're beaten in both dimensions, which has Djoing and The Mad One on one side, and Alienoid on the other) to poison Alienoid, assuring that he'll never be defeated. After killing Djoing once (he respawns), he shuts off the time loop device that allows the boss fight to be started again after they die, then proceeds to ignore them in favor of rampaging across the city, likely killing many innocent civilians. After a climatic battle, he rants about how everyone in the world will kneel to his power, or be destroyed by it. When he finally is defeated after the time reset device is re-activated and Alienoid is revived, he self-destructs the castle and steals Wily's saucer as a last ditch attempt to kill the heroes. Also, he keeps forgetting Roll exists.
Freudian Excuse? None. He just popped up one day and kicked off his scheme without even trying to justify himself. He's simply that self-absorbed.
Redeeming features? None, any time he helps the heroes is to further his own gain, as he still had them thinking he was the good guy.
Heinousness? He takes over as the villain when Gamma appears, and he fits into those shoes a little too comfortably. It's telling that Wily is helping the good guys defeat him.
Final Verdict?
I'm leaning towards a
to Crazy Light. He sounds like a typical villain outside of the Gamma rampage, but your wording is raising some red flags. Did he LIKELY kill many civilians, or did he DEFINITELY kill many civilians? The wording changes everything. If it was likely, that sounds more like fridge horror, and I wouldn't feel comfortable voting him up.
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The entry talks about Kilgrave ultimately subverting the Jerkass Woobie trope, so it can stay.
edited 22nd Apr '16 7:21:01 PM by ANewMan
