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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56976: Apr 20th 2016 at 9:49:52 AM

I thought the 1-week rule was for all serialized media, not just TV.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56977: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:23:55 AM

[up] I think? I know it's 1 week for episodic TV, two weeks for movies and video games. I'd guess it'd be 1 week for Anime, Manga (unless it's a film, like Boruto, which would probably be 2), and webcomics; and 2 weeks for novels; unsure about comic books. Honestly, I'd make it 3 weeks for video games, 2 weeks for novels, and 1 week for everything else.

edited 20th Apr '16 10:26:59 AM by ACW

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#56978: Apr 20th 2016 at 10:25:30 AM

I have no interest in creepypastas, so no vote on the Burbages.

@VeryMelon, I wouldn't count Zoom out yet. There's still a few episodes left.

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#56979: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:13:47 AM

^^ Wait, why even use different waiting periods? That's just potential for confusion, especially when the FAQ says two weeks. We should just use the two week standard for all of it. Or is it really so vital to talk about a new candidate that people can't wait another week?

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#56980: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:18:45 AM

ACW is just making it more complicated than it has to be.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#56981: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:39:19 AM

Absolutely, positively [tdown] to the Burnages.

It's funny, this kind of edgy stuff would have legitimately scared younger me. But now, all I can do is sigh and shake my head. What's even worse is the fact that these stories are a reminder that Reddit's nosleep sub has really, really fallen from grace as of recent times. sad

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#56982: Apr 20th 2016 at 11:57:11 AM

Anyways...yes to Sarah, but only because the rule wasn't clear. I think we can allow this one, but that's it for self proposals after.

Yes to the Burnages, but under intense protests and I don't want to see many more of these, TBH...

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#56983: Apr 20th 2016 at 12:10:08 PM

What about episodic video games, do they get 1 week or 2 weeks?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#56984: Apr 20th 2016 at 12:15:52 PM

Um, VM, I don't think it was me who had the one-week rule (though I MAY have suggested it). It makes sense at least for TV shows though, IMHO.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56985: Apr 20th 2016 at 12:37:41 PM

I think I will [tup] Sarah and the Burnages, though the latter story sounds bloody awful.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#56986: Apr 20th 2016 at 1:00:15 PM

Maybe I was a bit rash with downvoting Sarah but I am not going to be in favor of her until I read the fanfic myself. So I'l change my vote to abstaining on Sarah.

The Bunages example however is an easy [tdown]

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#56987: Apr 20th 2016 at 2:02:07 PM

[up]Once again, there's a link in the effort-post.

Why so serious?
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#56988: Apr 20th 2016 at 2:43:04 PM

I'd say a two week waiting period for everything too. Dividing it up by medium just makes it needlessly complicated.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#56989: Apr 20th 2016 at 2:46:29 PM

Agreed with Occasional Eater. NO need for complications. Keep it simple and all. 2 weeks for all.

Shadow?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#56990: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:03:32 PM

[tup] Everything being two weeks.

In the FAQ, the "no Torture Porn" rule is listed under the fanfic rules folder, when it applies to all media. May I do a point about that rule?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#56991: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:10:30 PM

[up][up]Occasional Exister. He's not an anorexic.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#56992: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:11:18 PM

Is it bad if I laughed at that typo?

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#56993: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:21:37 PM

Alright, I have another candidate, from the 2000 AD story A Love Like Blood, vampire king Karkossa.

Who is Karkossa? What has he done?

Karkossa is the Monster Progenitor of the vampire race. Even more monstrous-looking than the regular vampires, he has come to resemble a humanoid bat after centuries of feeding. As the founder and Vampire Monarch of the Sangraal dynasty, his bloodline has humans herded into People Farms for himself and the other vampires to feed on – children aren’t excluded, by the way. For instance, during a feast his followers massacre untold numbers of people simply to create a “carpet” of blood for him to walk on as he arrives, leaving aside the main course, which includes humans consumed as if it were a Thanksgiving dinner and others hung from meathooks on the ceiling for decoration. In laboratoria vampire scientists create new diseases to make feeding easier, like a heamorrhagic fever that causes humans to bleed out from every orifice in minutes. Of course, it's all Tested on Humans.

The vampires are also at war with the werewolf race, with Karkossa ordering a hit on a werewolf compound to gain an advantage. Karkossa’s trueborn son Jacques falls in love with a female werewolf and they defect from both sides when she becomes pregnant. Since there’s plenty of Fantastic Racism on both sides, Karkossa orders his son, his son's lover, and the unborn child killed as abominations, making a temporary truce with his werewolf counterpart Lord Romulus to do so. She’s later ripped to pieces by Karkossa’s progeny from the Bathory family when Jacques is out hunting for food. Jacques pledges to kill his father, who is too busy bathing in the blood and body parts of the human cattle that his servants bring onboard his private plane wherever he goes and enjoying their screams of horror. He fights his son to the death with no remorse before Jacques manages to throw him in the turbine engine and kills him for good.

Heinous by the standards of the story?

The vampires (and werewolves) are all monsters who feed on humans, but not one of them manages to reach this level of sadism, including the werewolf leader Lord Romulus. In fact, as the overlord of all the vampires in the world he can be held accountable for their collective actions.

Freudian Excuse or redeeming traits?

Hell no. He was never a father to his son, he just wanted him to continue his legacy by ruling Earth after Karkossa retires to a vampire heaven he would create on the moon. He also has full control of his faculties.

Conclusion?

Keeper. The guy is so bloodthirsty he'd make Jan Valek flinch.

edited 20th Apr '16 4:00:32 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#56995: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:23:58 PM

And with that laugh, the typo shall stay.

[tup] Karkossa

edited 20th Apr '16 3:24:09 PM by Irene

Shadow?
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#56996: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:25:18 PM

[tup]Karkossa.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#56999: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:46:42 PM

[tup] Karkossa.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#57000: Apr 20th 2016 at 3:52:59 PM

@Amber, I don't get it what does being anorexic have to do with anything?

[tup]Karkosa

edited 20th Apr '16 3:53:47 PM by username2527


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