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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#55076: Mar 22nd 2016 at 12:56:49 PM

@Kookosbanaani: I watch it, I'll keep an eye out. they didn't do much to help the case against them so far.

Oissu!
Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#55077: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:06:20 PM

[up] They did threaten to kill Mike's daughter and later Hector told Mike that he will send the twins after his daughter and daughter-in-law if he doesn't co-operate. So far, they act as cold and ruthless as in Breaking Bad. I doubt they will have any redeeming qualities in Better Call Saul either, just wondering if their actions in this series will be added to their entry later on.

edited 22nd Mar '16 1:09:55 PM by Kookosbanaani

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#55078: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:23:42 PM

[up] Yeah, I was saying they still seem just as cold and monstrous. Sorry, that wasn't as clear as it was in my head at all.

Oissu!
Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#55079: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:44:40 PM

Here's my write-up for the Snake of Clearing Eyes (Kuroha).

Kagerou Project: The Snake of Clearing Eyes (Nicknamed Kuroha by the fandom) is one of Azami's snakes, and is the overarching antagonist of the entire franchise. After scoffing Shion and Marry's deaths, he manipulates Azami into letting him and the other snakes free so they can live, allowing him to escape into the real world and possess Kenjirou Tateyama. He then goes about granting his host's subconcious wish to see his deceased wife again by taking over his body while he sleeps and arranging the murders of his students Takane and Haruka. When Kenjirou's daughter Ayano discovered his plans, he tricked her into killing herself in an ill-fated attempt to thwart him, smirking sadistically as the Haze swallows her. He then forces her step-brother Kano to help him cover up her fate as a regular suicide before carrying out his murders without incident. 2 years later, he still hasn't fulfilled Kenjirou's wish since doing so would end his existence, and when the Mekakushi Dan discover him, he injures and possesses Konoha and proceeds to murder all of them in quick succession, forcing Marry to reset the timeline to avert this tragedy. He repeats this an unknown amount of times before finally being defeated in the anime. Murdering the same group of teens over and over again partly to maintain his own existence and partly because the suffering of others amuses him, the Snake of Clearing Eyes was willing to lock the entire world in a "Groundhog Day" Loop just to maintain his existence for eternity.

edited 22nd Mar '16 1:47:54 PM by Aker-Sama

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#55080: Mar 22nd 2016 at 1:58:17 PM

Please add here. Also, would it go under Anime and Manga, or at Other Media under the "multimedia" group (with Bionicle)?

Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#55081: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:01:46 PM

[up] It's adaptations outside of the vocaloid music are a manga, an anime, and a light novel. It would most likely go under Anime & Manga.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#55082: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:02:52 PM

@ACW

Glemmy seems genuinely distraught when his command gets shot out from under him. There's also his relationship, such as it is, with Roux, though how much that humanizes him is up the air—he views her as a possession he wants to control, but at the same time, generally refuses to hurt her.

I suppose I could do an effort post based on his actions in the actual anime and we could reexamine based on that. I'd hate to cut manga!Glemmy if he really belongs, but I'd also hate to leave a bad example on the page.

I think I'll ask if anyone in the Gundam thread has actually read it.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#55083: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:05:11 PM

Glemmy in the anime is an absolute no. His dying moments alone would disqualify him, when he gracefully accepts his death at Roux's hands, with Roux telling him she won't forget that he loved her.

I know the manga exists, but I've never seen it

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#55084: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:07:56 PM

The only thing I know about him in the manga is that he supposedly burns down a town, and that Judau, rather than Roux, kills him. And that's just from what's on the character sheet.

I've posted a question in the Gundam thread to see if anybody there has read the damn thing and can confirm that it makes him worse. I mean, I can see a version of Glemmy qualifying. He's a sociopathic, would-be teenage dictator, who betrays pretty much everyone who ever trusts him, treats women as objects, creeps on little girls, and has an army of cloned ten-year olds ready to die in his service. It would not take much to push him into CM-hood. But without somebody to confirm it, that entry should probably go.

Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#55085: Mar 22nd 2016 at 2:25:01 PM

I also have this panel from the manga if you want to add it to the Image Links section. https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/kurohas_a_monster.JPG

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#55086: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:08:55 PM

Thanks guys for explaining Glemmy.
And yeah, Kagerou would go under anime and manga then.
I like the image, but (and maybe I'm being too literal) why does nobody look like a snake?

edited 22nd Mar '16 3:38:45 PM by ACW

Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#55087: Mar 22nd 2016 at 3:42:09 PM

[up] Azami's snakes don't really have a physical form, they're only able to manifest themselves inside the Heat Haze. It's a bit complicated how exactly they go about possessing their hosts. As stated before, the Snake of Clearing Eyes is able to control his hosts' bodies when they are asleep or unconscious. In the above picture, while it's Konoha's body, it's the Snake of Clearing Eyes who's pulling the trigger.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#55089: Mar 22nd 2016 at 4:32:10 PM

Has the Zootopia villain been resolved? I was steering clear to avoid spoilers but I've seen it now and wanted to express an opinion.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#55090: Mar 22nd 2016 at 4:33:02 PM

Yes, it's been resolved; the villain in question has been deemed a non-keeper.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#55092: Mar 22nd 2016 at 5:35:12 PM

Out of curiosity, what was that opinion? I still think Bellwether is the closest to a CM that the 2010 Disney Villains have got so far, aside from Turbo.

Why so serious?
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#55093: Mar 22nd 2016 at 5:59:59 PM

I... was going to say I could see her counting. She's got potential mitigating factors, but none are ever confirmed for sure and all that's explicitly stated is that she wanted power. And fomenting a race-war and Mind Rape are pretty hardcore for a family movie villain.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#55094: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:08:52 PM

That was the sticking point for me. Turning the predators savage and having them hurt anyone who got in their crosshairs (the caribou getting mauled by a polar bear, for instance) felt like it was breaching past generic villainy. As well as for the intended prey vs predator race war she planned.

Why so serious?
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#55095: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:27:59 PM

To be honest, I hadn't watched the film yet, but I was somewhat leaning towards a yes for her.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#55096: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:30:19 PM

She reminded me a lot of both Clark Preston and Jackson Calley from Criminal Minds, particularly Preston.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#55097: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:31:43 PM

That, and while killing the heroes is seen as generic, I felt even the way she tried to dispatch them in this case was disgustingly cruel: shooting Nick with the Night Howler serum to have him kill what was heavily implied to be his first actual friend.

Why so serious?
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#55098: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:33:01 PM

Forcing heroes to kill each other is also non-generic to me.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#55099: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:38:43 PM

Not familiar with what you guys are talking about, but yeah I would say forcing someone against their will to kill a loved one or good friend is past generic villainy.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#55100: Mar 22nd 2016 at 6:42:40 PM

Yeah, I'm honestly baffled that Bellewhether was deemed a non-example: she carves out a unique niche among Disney villains as the would-be mastermind of a race war involving mass mind rape that would have gotten lots of innocent people kiled. At this point it's too late to really vote on her and I wish I decided to do so earlier, but I view her as a solid keeper.

edited 22nd Mar '16 6:44:02 PM by FriedWarthog


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