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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#54101: Mar 5th 2016 at 7:06:47 PM

[tup] to Crime Master, Moloch, Mara Angnakak, the killer (Dr. Jacob Land), Moran (that wouldn't be Sebastian Moran by any chance, would it?), and Daos.

A kind thank you to Scraggle and AmbarSonOfDeshar for answering my questions. I understand the heinous standard far better now, and nobody worry; I wouldn't propose a character that I created and expect you to just take my word on whether they count or not.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#54102: Mar 5th 2016 at 7:10:47 PM

Could you have a Daredevil fan fiction where Stilt-Man is a CM?

He'd hardly be the most ridiculous villain reimagined into a serious threat by actual comics - though he is at the level where it tends to fail with readers.

edited 5th Mar '16 7:54:28 PM by nrjxll

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#54103: Mar 5th 2016 at 7:12:30 PM

What's the consensus on sinkholes and excessive blue entries on examples?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#54104: Mar 5th 2016 at 7:20:10 PM

[up] I've actually been trying to minimize the potholes I use when tweaking entries.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#54105: Mar 5th 2016 at 7:20:13 PM

[up][up] .....That's actually a good question; no one's brought that up before. I'm assuming using some Potholes is fine, so long as the entry isn't too crazy about it.

edited 5th Mar '16 7:20:24 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#54107: Mar 5th 2016 at 8:00:10 PM

I removed some of the potholes in this entry from Dredd, but they were re-added with the edit reason "given this set was agreed in the CM thread, this'll be restored".

  • Madeline "Ma-Ma" Madrigal is the de facto ruler of the Peach Trees apartment complex and the biggest and most aggressive drug lord spreading the Slo-Mo drug, which slows the user's perception of time, throughout Mega-City One. Her meteoric ascent to power in Peach Trees is noted as unprecedented for its sheer senseless carnage and bloodshed, as she and her followers slaughtered their way to the top (ironically by taking the top first, then slaughtering their way down the block) with a Slasher Smile on her face. She is introduced having several rival gangsters skinned alive, then thrown out a very long drop after being given Slo-Mo to draw out their deaths. When the Judges arrive to investigate and capture one of her chief lieutenants, Ma-Ma has the Peach Trees complex shut down to trap Dredd and his trainee inside to silence any witnesses. She has no compunction about any civilians getting caught in the crossfire, to the point that she opens fire into an apartment block with gatling guns to kill the two judges. Dredd, a trigger-happy Knight Templar himself, notes just how overkill this is. We later learn that she personally carved out the eyes of her lead techie to forcefully give him cybernetic implants and playfully threatens to gut him while issuing orders. The captured lieutenant is later returned to her, and she only refrains from killing him because she's running low on men at that point. She finally arranges to blow up half the complex, with a population of thousands, by detonating a bomb tied to her heart rate.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#54108: Mar 5th 2016 at 8:37:39 PM

I might have to dig through my old Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms sourcebooks and novels as well...I swear, there's some really nasty villains I remember there who'd probably qualify.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#54109: Mar 5th 2016 at 8:41:22 PM

[up]I have a massive collection of old D&D shared-universe setting material, so I can back up things if you want, though there's no character immediately coming to mind that demands inclusion.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#54110: Mar 5th 2016 at 9:09:12 PM

The ones that're just kind of kicking my memory:

  • Cyan Bloodbane, the green dragon

  • We have Malystryx listed, but of the five Dragon Overlords of DL, three others may be worth discussing

  • A few evil mortals as well...I recall a few of the Ogre Titans and racist human generals to have been extremely vile.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#54111: Mar 5th 2016 at 9:30:07 PM

Wouldn't all of the Dragon Overlords (except Khellendros) sort of be at around the same place on the heinousness scale?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#54112: Mar 5th 2016 at 9:38:25 PM

Not particularly. Malystryx is...well, well over and above the others on the 'wanton destruction' scale and blows every other dragon out of the water on that front. Beryl wanted to commit flat out racial genocide on the elves, Onysablet has the freaky Mad Scientist thing where she experiments on everything she had, and Gellidus, if I could just find that damn game module, might have gone full on Omnicidal Maniac nutjob on the world with the others all dead...add that to his creepy rape attempts with Silvara, and there's actually a lot to distinguish them from one another outside of the general Overlord activities.

Also, Malys's typical response to being challenged is to fly out, even out of her territory, designate an area for a dragon-style carpet bombing and reduce everything in it to charred bones and ashes.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#54113: Mar 5th 2016 at 9:54:31 PM

Okay, got the writeup for Captain Lyle done.

The Pirates Covered in Fur: Captain Lyle Krinkor is the vicious leader of an army of pirates. Wanting to start his own empire, Lyle amasses his entire army and leads an assault on Diamond City. Thousands perish during his initial attack; the survivors are all taken hostage by Lyle's troops and stowed away in a hotel. As his troops continue to destroy the city, Lyle instructs one of his lieutenants to set off a bomb on the bridge the survivors are using for evacuation. After the bridge is demolished and Lyle personally kills three of Michum's friends, he orders Pryllic to start killing all the hostages in the hotel; shortly afterwards, he also contacts Michum and brags about how his friends are all dead. During his final confrontation with Michum and Tully, he beheads Pryllic for failing to defeat them in combat, then proceeds to fatally wound Tully and subdues Michum. Even after defeating Michum, Lyle continues to taunt him for his failure—which leads to his undoing.

edited 6th Mar '16 5:46:02 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#54114: Mar 5th 2016 at 10:51:39 PM

@Lightysnake. Have you read any of the Legend of Drizzt novels? At over thirty books and counting now, it definitely has its fair share of really evil villains. The ironic thing is that I don't actually believe anyone else in the series counts for now. R.A. Salvatore either tends to write complex and morally grey villains or has villains that lack moral agency. On the former, "bad guys" such as Artemis Entreri, Obould Many-Arrows, and Jarlaxle Baenre all have good qualities and could even be considered good guys in later books (Jarlaxle especially). On the latter, a few of the long term villains are sentient artifacts like Crenshinbon, the eponymous Crystal Shard, or evil sentient weapons like the swords Khazid'hea and Charon's Claw. Finally, I will also say it sucks demons in D&D don't have moral agency or the balor, Errtu, would definately count. Regardless, I would like to know if anyone else has read the saga and can provide potential candidates.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#54115: Mar 5th 2016 at 10:56:14 PM

I think we've got as many candidates from Drizzt right now as we can. There's probably a number of other villains in the FR settings as a whole, though.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#54116: Mar 5th 2016 at 11:14:44 PM

[up][up]As far as I know, the only Drizzt villain we have listed is Matron Baenre, and I can't think of anyone else who would qualify - though I stopped reading the series some time ago. (I think we also discussed Arklem Greeth, but I don't remember what the consensus was on him and I think of him as more a general Forgotten Realms villain).

Edit: I suppose there is that shade dude from the Neverwinter sub-series, if he's not up there already. I can't remember his name, but I think he was a serial rapist in addition to more standard Big Bad stuff.

edited 5th Mar '16 11:17:31 PM by nrjxll

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#54117: Mar 6th 2016 at 12:11:41 AM

Yeah, we just have Matron Baenre, one of her crazier daughters and the tiefling Shade Herzgo

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#54118: Mar 6th 2016 at 12:24:26 AM

[up][up] and [up]: Greeth is listed, between Vendes and Herzgo.

[down] I've added Barrot to the drafts page, by the by.

edited 6th Mar '16 2:19:19 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#54119: Mar 6th 2016 at 2:12:49 AM

Tyk, please add that to the drafts page, and I may be able to squeeze it in with this week's batch.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#54120: Mar 6th 2016 at 2:34:44 AM

I was playing DyingLight and I believe I found a possible candidate, well here it is he wasn't given a name so i called him the "The Fan Zone Killer"

Who is he? he is a character, and appears in the side quest "Fan Zone".

What has he done? He resides in the Old Town Broadcast Station, where he makes broadcast to people in Old Town that there are women and children in the broadcast station who need food and water. When Kyle Crane hears this he goes to investigate, it is soon revealed that this was a lie and the truth is he is a serial killer who since the time the outbreak started uses the broadcast station to lure people in and kills them himself as evidence with all the corpses lying in the station. He has even brags to Crane that he has so many people he can't even remember, including women and children! When Crane faces off with him he taunts him and says he'll make Crane suffer, starting by cutting off his ears so he won't hear a thing while saying his screams won't go to waste. It is implied that is how many of his victims die.

Heinous Standard? Unlike most of the survivors in Dying Light who kill just to survive and feel guilty about it, It seems clear that the Fan zone Killer is only motivated by sadism and thrills, not to mention the body count inside the broadcast station and the fact he is the only one in there meaning he did all of this by himself.

Any Freudian Excuse? He claims to have been abandon by cowards, though it is hard to believe it coming from him and even if it is true they might have their reasons for or they never meant to leave him behind. Either way it doesn't excuse his actions.

Final Verdict? as far as side quest baddies go, he is pretty heinous, as for a CM I'll leave you guy to decide

edited 6th Mar '16 2:42:16 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#54121: Mar 6th 2016 at 2:40:56 AM

[tup] To the Fan Zone Killer, just as long as no one truly rivals him.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#54122: Mar 6th 2016 at 3:08:36 AM

I'll give a [tup] to the Fan Zone killer.

edited 6th Mar '16 3:13:49 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#54123: Mar 6th 2016 at 3:19:01 AM

[up][up] Seconded. How does he compare with Rais?

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#54124: Mar 6th 2016 at 5:22:09 AM

[tup] Fan Zone Killer

BTW, I know this has been discussed a lot, so don't hate me for this, but I think we should reconsider Habib Marwan. I know, he has a Villainous Friendship with his associates, but I keep see it as pure pragmatic: he has to be kind to them so they will follow his orders without asking. He gest over quite quickly when they got killed. He's more like "Oh, that's bad. Oh, well, just carry on..." I think he values more his own "cause" than anything else.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#54125: Mar 6th 2016 at 5:43:45 AM

[up] I could see Habib counting but keep in mind that I am a guy who wants to cut Abu Fayed for loving his brother and especially Masked Man Machine for loving his mother.

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