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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#53176: Feb 22nd 2016 at 3:20:50 PM

@ Scraggle: Well, the second story gives Cretan more characterization than Blunt has. The stories are also longer and the second one has more of an actual plot than just a backstory.

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#53177: Feb 22nd 2016 at 3:23:12 PM

I never liked Blunt on this list anyways.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#53178: Feb 22nd 2016 at 3:56:17 PM

Not voting on Cretan. Anyways, the pick for the image for Monster.Live Action TV still needs to be resolved.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#53179: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:02:07 PM

[tdown] Cretan. Sounds like plotless garbage.

Blunt should also be cut. I've read all the Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark series (cool books, by the way), and the stories are too minimalist for anybody to count.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#53180: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:20:40 PM

I'll cut Blunt with Gould tomorrow?

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#53181: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:22:34 PM

RE: Cretan

I wasn't aware of the sequel when I posted him.

Checking the story, he mentions his wife ''hiding children" from him so I guess that explains the Grandkids?

Currently I have a tentative thumbs up.

By the way, was there ever any voting done on Dollface from the new Twisted Metal?

Here was the entry someone proposed.

  • Whilst the other two protagonists of the game have relatively valid excuses for their violent behavior (Sweet Tooth is possessed by a demon and Mr. Grimm is broken after the death of his father), Krista 'Dollface' Sparkes has no excuse other than greed, killing her competition so she can become the world's greatest supermodel. She saws one's high heel off, causing her to fall off the catwalk and break her neck and bludgeons another one to death with a sledgehammer. When she gets an almost unnoticeable scar, she dismembers her plastic surgeon for the heinous crime of telling her it doesn't need to be fixed. Vile, vindictive and violent, Dollface represents every negative feature of the cut-throat fashion industry turned up to eleven.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=2001#50014

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:26:13 PM by Monsund

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#53183: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:28:13 PM

Dollface, IMO, doesn't breach the heinous standard. Sweet Tooth is a hard bar to clear...nevermind Calypso

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#53184: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:28:21 PM

I'm seriously, seriously tempted to vote no on Gerald Cretan just because I am so very tired of bobg proposing characters like this when so many people are vocally irritated at repeatedly having the same discussion. But I'm probably going to abstain, as he seems to fall just on the line of having enough of a story to count and I'm concerned about precedent issues.

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#53185: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:29:46 PM

[up][up]

I'm not super duper familiar with Twisted Metal, but I'll take your word for it. Looking it up, all three protagonists seem equal in deeds.

There's another candidate, I'm thinking of suggestion from a JRPG, but I don't think I'll have time for a full write up, I can suggest it if anyone is interested though?

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:32:20 PM by Monsund

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#53186: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:33:10 PM

@Nrjxll: Monsund is the one who proposed him, I just did the effortpost for him. Oh, and by the way, you've made a powerful enemy today.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:34:09 PM by bobg

jjj
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#53187: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:48:47 PM

Late [tup]to Bill. And to the guy I saw said that there wasn't a flashback to Bill destroying his home dimension, we saw Bill illustrate how he "liberated" his flat dimension by making an image in his eye of him setting the world on fire. That moves out of being off-screen villainy.

So Bill has the death, torture, destruction and mutilation of billions on his rapsheet, and attempted to do the same to billions more. He is the worst Disney character I have ever seen.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#53188: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:49:32 PM

Okay, also?

That's like not how the law works. If there's enough for reasonable doubt, they don't sentence you to two years to make up the difference! And what judge in their right goddamn mind would give a guy who'd already been tried and convicted for faulty products killing people 'only' ten years for doing almost the exact same thing?! And what fucking camp looks at 'convicted felon' (let alone murderer) on a resume and goes "yeah, that's the guy I want working with young folks." And when people start fucking disappearing (and wood chippers tend to leave something of a mess so someone might notice the carmine drenched floors) you'd think the first suspect might be the guy twice convicted for murder. How does he even have any money? Wouldn't civil suits bankrupt him?

Oh, and another use of "insanity defense!" No court in their right goddamn mind would buy that for a heartbeat. And then 'burned down an asylum and remained at large?' Contrary to what this writer may think, the mentally ill are not flammable! How would this even be possible? Any home for the criminally insane would probably have arson pretty high on the list of things they're watching out for.

Christ, I hate these stupid dark stories.

edited 22nd Feb '16 4:50:48 PM by Lightysnake

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#53189: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:53:29 PM

[up]

I believe Dirty Harry popularized the idea that "the law exists to protect psychotic murderers."

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#53190: Feb 22nd 2016 at 4:57:56 PM

Dirty Harry had Harry torture the suspect, rendering the evidence and confession supposedly inadmissible. I mean, the film leans just a bit towards the right wing authoritarian side in its politics (and no evidence would exclude the body which would be enough to convict Scorpio anyways), but that's not the same as to this writer having like no idea how the law or basic functions of society work.

edited 22nd Feb '16 5:00:15 PM by Lightysnake

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#53191: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:03:40 PM

[up]

To be clear, I think him being able to become a camp councilor after all that, stretched it too far as well.

I believe the thing was he didn't use a search warrant, but its said the groundskeeper let the Scorpio Killer stay there, meaning it wasn't Scorpio's property to begin with.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#53192: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:07:10 PM

He raped the girl. His DNA would be all over her. They don't bury a body again if it's discovered when you didn't have a warrant. The issue was Harry tortured The Scorpio Killer to get the confession which also led to the rifle

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#53193: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:12:42 PM

[up]

Both are very unrealistic, but I can see how the Dirty Harry example is more believable.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#53194: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:21:30 PM
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#53195: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:28:15 PM

Yeah, darkfics aren't things we should be thinking too deeply about..

Why so serious?
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#53196: Feb 22nd 2016 at 5:38:56 PM

Not to defend the story, but the reason he was sentenced to two years for the vehicle deaths was because while no one could prove he deliberately rigged them, at the very least, that would still count as neggligance since he'd have to be a very shitty mechanic. Also, on the camp thing, he's caught the night it happens (he kills all the kids in one night). As for the thing about him becoming a camp councilor in the first place, I thought people could only refuse you a job based on your criminal record alone if it would possibly be connected to the job, like a thief trying to work at a jewlery store. He was convicted of negligeant homicide through faulty products, and I don't see a connection between that and a position as camp councilor. If someone refused ME a job based on some unrelated crime from my past, I'd fight back to get the job and tke it all way to the courts.

If you want to complain about a stupid thing in the story, I'd pick the shower thing. How the heck do you make it so that once the faucet is turned, it won't turn off and the drain will close? Better yet, how was he able to convince the jury that he "accidentally" did that? Or why no one questioned why the door wouldn't open from the inside? Also, why didn't the victims just turn the shower head around so the water didn't get on them?

jjj
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#53197: Feb 22nd 2016 at 6:20:13 PM

Re: Dirty Harry and DNA: DNA fingerprinting wasn't invented yet when that movie was released. The movie was released in 1971, DNA testing was invented in 1984.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#53198: Feb 22nd 2016 at 6:36:42 PM

Oh, by the way, [tup] to Bill Cipher.

jjj
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#53199: Feb 22nd 2016 at 6:48:06 PM

Late to the party, but Bill is an easy [tup] for me now. It's almost incredible just how freaking dark and demented that character managed to get not just by animated series standards, but Disney standards too, and how seriously his threat was played despite he himself being a ridiculous Laughably Evil villain. [Mod note: Bashing fandoms is not cool.]

edited 22nd Feb '16 8:08:37 PM by Berrenta

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#53200: Feb 22nd 2016 at 6:53:01 PM

At some point, there will be a sale on journals that are inspired on the ones from the series. Should those be taken into account, or will there not be anything possibly redeeming for Bill? They were confirmed to be canon.

edited 22nd Feb '16 6:54:05 PM by AustinDR


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