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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52901: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:08:29 PM

[tup]Cinder.

Why so serious?
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#52902: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:10:14 PM

[tup] to Julian

As a new fan of the series and an adamant adorer of Pyrrha, [tup] x10000000 to Cinder.

edited 19th Feb '16 9:11:36 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#52903: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:13:40 PM

Yes to Cinder. I've seen the series, she passes the heinous standard and took what was once a fairly light-hearted series down a very, very dark tone.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#52904: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:13:49 PM

[tup] Cinder Fall. Deliberately dropping monsters on civilian centers does it for me.

Does anything disqualify the abusive ex, by the way? He might qualify on a smaller scale.

edited 19th Feb '16 9:14:43 PM by HamburgerTime

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#52905: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:16:33 PM

No, nothing yet disqualifies Adam, but we haven't seen enough of him QUITE yet, I think. I'd love to post him.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#52906: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:23:00 PM

[tup]Julian and Cinder Fall.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#52910: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:45:03 PM

[tup] to Cinder, Julian and the Dark Rider.

I brought up this character a year and a half ago and didn't get any responses. Does anyone have any opinions on Mr. Null (the TMNT Adventures villain), the evil corporate demon who is a slaver, tries to help aliens destroy the human rave twice and is heavily implied to be a rapist?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1271#31753

edited 19th Feb '16 9:50:33 PM by Overlord

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#52911: Feb 19th 2016 at 9:54:09 PM

[tup] Julian. Vampire Diaries is slowly beginning to turn into a lovely, lovely show the more I find out about its villains. And its absurdly-high death toll.

[tup] Cinder Fall.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#52913: Feb 19th 2016 at 10:51:21 PM

I'm undecided on the character (she sounds pretty bad but the proposal relies in part on Word Of God, which is problematic), but I thought I should go ahead and mention that for anyone who is raising an eyebrow at the "SUE" stuff.

Actually, it's only problematic when Word of God's intents doesn't correlate with the story. Here, it does : in story, Hitomi is clearly the most heinous in the fic, possibly in Mai-Hime's universe as a whole, is despised by everyone, including Nao and the SUE, and was never portrayed in a positive light (no Freudian Excuse, no altruistic quality, absolutely nothing).

I merely used the Word of God to further emphasize on her heinoussness, and to get elements which weren't precised in the story. For example, in story, we only get to know that she killed quite a few people. Thanks to Word of God, we know that she killed 32 people.

So don't worry about it. The author doesn't try to influence your interpretation on the character.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#52914: Feb 19th 2016 at 10:59:40 PM

Eh. I guess [tup] Hitomi. She doesn't sound over-the-top, so I suppose that's okay.

@Overlord: You've been sitting on this guy for over a year and you're just now bringing him back up again? surprised

[tup] Null.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#52915: Feb 19th 2016 at 11:18:46 PM

[up] I brought Null up a couple times a few months after my original proposal, but it didn't get any traction, I guess he got lost in the shuffle.

Null is a pretty dark villain for a light hearted series like TMNT Adventures that started off as a adaption of the 1987 cartoon, but quickly went its own way. His creepy attitude towards female opponents is misogynist at best and makes him seem like a sexual predator at worst and with Mondo gecko's girlfriend, they flat out say he mind controlled her to be his girl friend and then he puts her in a simply outfit, after murdering her boyfriend. That would fly over the heads of the kids reading these comics, but to an adult that seems like sexual assault.

edited 19th Feb '16 11:19:33 PM by Overlord

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#52917: Feb 19th 2016 at 11:33:08 PM

[tup]Cinder Fall.

I'm honestly curious why you were holding off on proposing her, now. That does not sound like the sort of character who's likely to have a last-minute redemption or the like.

hamza678 Red Like Santa from Christmas Beacon. Since: Apr, 2013
Red Like Santa
#52918: Feb 19th 2016 at 11:33:56 PM

[up]

We thought that about Tobi too...

Now known as Cyber Controller
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#52919: Feb 19th 2016 at 11:40:43 PM

[up][up] To be honest? Nothing more than I was waiting for the deadline to pass with volume 3's conclusion to post an effortpost

I cannot stress what a beloved character Pyrrha was in the fanbase. I have rarely seen a character hated to this extent.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52920: Feb 20th 2016 at 1:03:07 AM

[tup] Julian I think (I'll take the word of those who watch it).
[tup] Cinder. Regardless of what she did to Pyrrha (Hate Sink=/CM), seems she does enough, IF she can be clearly blamed for the Grimm attacking Vale. Geeze, all that for UNLIMITED POWER!!!

edited 20th Feb '16 9:18:37 AM by ACW

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#52921: Feb 20th 2016 at 1:48:04 AM

[tup] For Cinder and Julia. BTW, I think we should take a look to Jared Leto's Joker and the new Apocalypse as soon as the movies will come out

edited 20th Feb '16 1:52:36 AM by MovieFan2000

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#52922: Feb 20th 2016 at 3:08:33 AM

[tup] Cinder.

As for Julian's write up.

  • The Vampire Diaries: Julian from season seven stands out as an especially evil vampire in this series, who constantly spends his time murdering and manipulating. Julian is Lily Salvatore's lover and father figure to the Heretics, whom he sees as personal pawns. In his first episode Julian discovers that Valerie is pregnant and beats her into a miscarriage and silently taunts her as she recovers. When resurrected, he compels multiple people from other towns into filling up the school and restaurants as a constant and living blood bank. To protect himself, Julian links his life to Lily's. When Lily sees through him, Julian tries to force Lily to either kill Damon or Valerie, taunting that he unlinked their lives when Lily stakes herself. Julian later uses a mystical dagger to entrap Stefan and Damon in their personal Hells. Julian also kills off mall employees at a neighbouring town. When Stefan and Damon return, it's discovered that Julian has built an chaotic vampire army that completely took over Mystic Falls. Julian uses them to feed off and torment the human population. Julian also holds a gladiatorial fight club where contestants fight to the death for his amusement, in which he has a suicidal Damon take part in, before fighting Damon himself. It's also revealed he's behind the vampire hunter Raina, having forced the girl to kill her father. Julian doesn't even have the humanity switch to excuse him, being outright stated to have been born evil.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#52925: Feb 20th 2016 at 3:58:57 AM

[tup] to Julian, Cinder and Null.

What about Hitomi ?

edited 20th Feb '16 3:59:48 AM by MiraiYuji


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