During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Martel's a
. I know it's a film adaptation and all, but it still ties in with the universe, and he's nowhere near as bad as the other CMs.
I'm a little iffy on Frenic too due to the heinous standard, but he seems like he just makes the cut.
Very tentative
to Frenis but absolute
to Martel.
By the way, I just watched the movie The Witches based on Roald Dahl's novel. While we already have the Grand High Witch's Literature incarnation, her movie incarnation is actually worse. I will provide an effort-post tomorrow.
edited 8th Feb '16 8:09:54 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I've watched The Witches. The Grand High Witch didn't seem much different from the book, but I'll wait for the effort-post anyways.
Why so serious?Yeah, I have to agree. She has virtually the exact same rapsheet; the only differences is the baby in a stroller stunt and acting like a Jerkass to her assistant.
Why so serious?Okay I might retract then. But I have another suggestion. In the past it said on Video Games page;
You're really going to be glad when you defeat these characters in your games. That is, unless you're playing as them.
Now it says; You're really going to be glad when you defeat these characters in your games.
Can we change to how it was originally, since we allowed TWO player characters?
edited 8th Feb '16 9:02:37 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Iffy on Mudou. Clearly the most heinous character in the work, but overall heinous standard? Eh, I'll give it a VERY slight
.
Definite
to emperors's suggestion
though. I'll submit that and the DBZ rewrites tomorrow morning if no issues. I'd just make it "Unless you're playing as them."
edited 9th Feb '16 1:57:34 AM by ACW
On Frenic, I mainly suggested him because he never shows any care for the other mages. Early in the film, a Blood Mage warns him that he might kill Avexis if he feeds her too much blood, and Frenic starts choking him in retaliation. That, and his murders and attempted murders of the circle mages kills his statements into question.
Why so serious?The real problem with Frenic is that blood mages who do evil things because "blood magic" and pay lip service to mage freedom are dime a dozen in Dragon Age. Frenic's plans just came closer to fruition than the others.
And while Dawn of the Seeker is a movie, it is part of the Dragon Age franchise's continuity, so the franchise's overall heinous standard applies.
So out of curiosity, what works are coming out soon that we should keep an eye on?
- I know the Gravity Falls finale airs soon.
- Deadpool opens this week.
- I still got the Judge Cal effortpost so we can put that to rest.
- And then of course there's X-Men: Apocalypse. Poe Dameron playing a character who's usually a CM? Should be interesting.
edited 9th Feb '16 6:12:50 AM by ACW
- The Taking of Tiger Mountain: The Bandit Lord Hawk rules his stronghold atop Tiger Mountain with an iron fist, ruling those that may defy him with the treat of extermination and death. Hawk punishes his own men that go against his wishes by using his own pet hawk to tear out their eyes after stripping them down in the freezing cold and sends his men to wipe out a village when the Chinese army's soldiers are stationed there. Hawk forces one of his men to kill his own sworn brother, even telling him he 'owes him' after, and keeps a woman he abducted from a raid as his forced 'wife,' only to use her as a human shield when things get tough.
- The Divine Move: Sal-Soo, known as "Killer," is a ruthless underground Go player who opens the film by punishing two men who attempt to cheat in a game with him by torturing one and forcing his brother to play for the other's life. Sal-Soo even has the injured brother force-fed Go stones and once his brother fails to win, Sal-Soo murders his victim and frames his brother for the crime. Sal-Soo takes a young girl as a captive who is a Go prodigy to cheat his way through his own games and frequently shows an enjoyment in brutalizing others. When the hero is out of jail, Sal-Soo ends up eventually kidnapping his friend Cheater and tortures Cheater brutally, even forcing him into a game and breaking his fingers at the wrong moves before playing Cheater's mentor Drinking Christ and eventually stabbing the old man to death. When one of his own men loses a game, Sal-Soo cuts his tongue out. In the final confrontation with his nemesis, Sal-Soo makes a 'point' to him by stabbing his love interest before attempting to kill him, too.
- Azumi: Bishamonten, named for the war god, is the leader of the 'nobuseri,' or masterless samurai who have taken to preying on the populace as bandits. Occupying a post town, Bishamonten massacres whoever stands against him and makes the town his personal kingdom where women are regularly raped or kept as sex slaves for him and his men. One son of a former samurai attempts to kill Bishamonten for raping his sister. Bishamonten easily disables him, thanks the man for his sister's body and then kills him and has his corpse defiled. Kidnapping high ranking officials in the province, Bishamonten uses them as hostages after slaughtering most of the province's military and has said hostages dropped onto sharpened bamboo stakes later. When he captures Azumi's comrade, a transwoman named Kiku, upon discovering Kiku is biologically male, Bishamonten breaks his word to not harm Kiku by allowing one of his lieutenants, Depraved Homosexual Seiryu, to rape and beat Kiku to death.
![]()
Friday.
To be tweaked this weekend. Look pretty good though. Incidentally, I'm guessing all the characters on the watchlist are still watched? Finally, out of curiosity, when doing the Stinger effortpost, you mentioned Robert McCammon has some other monsters in his works?
edited 9th Feb '16 6:27:11 AM by ACW
- On Frenic, I admittedly haven't played the game, so I wasn't familiar with that franchise's heinous standard. I'll drop him if the majority leans to cut.
- Will the Frieza image
◊ be suggested for Monster.Dragon Ball.
- On Friday, I'm going to be going to a hotel. Hopefully I can post an effort-post on Kai when I arrive.
I did a print screen
◊ to show how small that image looks on my monitor.

Since it's a film adaptation, I mainly decided to judge it by the film's standards.
Why so serious?