TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52026: Feb 4th 2016 at 7:04:52 PM

Alright, new proposal. It's from the So Bad, It's Good 80s action film The Beastmaster.

Who Is He?

His name is Maax. He was the High Priest of Aruk and priest of the kingdom's god Ar.

What Has He Done?

At the start of the film, Maax is told by one of his witch servants that he will die facing the son of King Zed. Shortly afterwards, Zed hears that Maax is planning a child sacrifice, and banishes him. And that's BEFORE he finds out that the child he plans to sacrifice is Zed's son. Maax is exiled, but before he leaves, as a final act of spite, he orders one of his witches to magically transport Zed's unborn infant out of his mother to kill it. This ends up killing Zed's wife. The witch prepares to sacrifice the infant, but the members of a local village kill the witch and save the baby, who they name Dar. He can also communicate with animals, hence the title 'Beastmaster'.

Anyways, the plot jumps many years ahead and Dar is an adult. In that time, Maax has become the leader of the Jun, a clan of barbarians. He uses them to take the throne of Aruk for himself. Zed is blinded and taken prisoner. Maax rules the kingdom through fear, killing many citizens and having their children sacrificed to Ar in exchange for "protection".

Maax has the Jun go to Dar's village and slaughter everyone there, including Dar's dog. Dar only survives because his dog, before dying, dragged him to safety. When Dar returns to the village, he finds the village in flames and the bodies of the villagers impaled on giant spears. This leads him to seek vengeance against Maax.

He arrives at Aruk, and immediately finds a ton of dead bodies impaled on spears at the kingdom's entrance. When he actually enters the kingdom, he sees Maax burn a child alive as a Human Sacrifice; something which it's made clear he does regularly. He tries to kill another child, but Dar saves him.

Maax sends his soldiers off to kill Dar, but they fail. He then has five slave girls, (including Zed's relative Kiri) sent off to be sacrificed, by Dar saves them, too. They go to Maax's prison to free Zed, and are set upon by Maax's Death Guards. While there, the heroes discover just how a Death Guard is created: they're regular people who get tortured by Maax's priests and then have a sort of worm implanted in their brain, transforming them into animal-like, mindless monsters to serve as Maax's guards.

They free Zed, who tries to lead an attack to take revenge. However, Maax, who had used his witches ring to spy on the group, is prepared for them, and the rebellion is squashed. He then prepares to have Kiri, Zed, and his young son sacrificed. Dar comes to save them, but Maax kills Zed as an act of spite, but not before taunting him by revealing that Dar is Zed's son.

Dar seemingly kills Maax, but one of his witches heals him. Maax's final action is to sneak up on Dar and Kiri and try to kill them both, but Dar's pet ferret tears his throat open and causes him to fall into his own sacrificial fireplace, killing him.

Redeeming traits and other mitigating factors

No on the redeeming traits. I don't consider his apparent devotion to his god redeeming, since not only does it entail human sacrifices, mainly of children, but it seems less like an actual devotion and more as a power tactic to cow the populace.

Also, about the prophecy; unlike another example I proposed, most of Maax's actions have nothing to do with fear of the prophecy. He seems to totally forget about it up until the end, where he blatantly mocks it.

Heinousness

Sets it as the Big Bad, and also having a very high bodycount.

Thoughts?

edited 4th Feb '16 7:55:37 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#52027: Feb 4th 2016 at 7:08:32 PM

I wasn't aware Madara Uchiha was ever on the list.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#52029: Feb 4th 2016 at 7:11:33 PM

I've said it before, but it's worth saying again: I don't know why there's become such a focus on not being "proven wrong" with villains who haven't died yet. I mean, it's not like there's a group of trolls lurking around so they can go "Ha ha, they said Villain X was a Complete Monster but the next episode gave him a redeeming quality", and if there was it shouldn't matter because that's just stupid. If Kraang Prime winds up being disqualified 'he' just gets removed from the example list, no big deal.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#52030: Feb 4th 2016 at 7:35:41 PM

[tup] Maax. Also, he gets killed by a ferret? How... undignified.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52031: Feb 4th 2016 at 7:38:40 PM

[up]Well, to be fair, he takes the ferret with him when he plummets to his death.

Why so serious?
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#52032: Feb 4th 2016 at 8:05:47 PM

If Maax were to get accepted, and if we included Bullseye from the movie, then Daredevil can get its own Monsters page.

It's Spooky Month!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#52033: Feb 4th 2016 at 8:08:31 PM

I don't think we should or need to do that

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#52034: Feb 4th 2016 at 8:13:56 PM

[up][up] Maax is the villain from the film Beastmaster, Coyote is the Daredevil villain. Also I don't think a DD subpage is needed, not every franchise needs a subpage if it has 5 or more examples. I am not sure how many new examples we can get for Daredevil, considering the high heinous standard for that series. Though Charles Soule is promising a really evil new villain for his second arc.

edited 4th Feb '16 8:23:16 PM by Overlord

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#52035: Feb 4th 2016 at 8:23:52 PM

[tup] Maax.

@nrjxll: It's not necessarily being proven wrong. It's moreso the fact that we get all the votes in, we get the writeup done, it gets all edited and it's nice and fresh, it's posted on the YMMV—

Oh shit, there's a slight redeeming quality. Now the example's gotta be removed after we spent all the time discussing and editing the entry.

I'm assuming (and this is just me personally) that many feel it's better to wait until a villain is dead or the show/book series is over so when we do discuss someone, there's absolutely no chance that something new will come up in the future.

edited 4th Feb '16 8:24:36 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52036: Feb 5th 2016 at 12:01:51 AM

  • [tup] Coyote (I wouldn't be opposed to giving DD its own subpage, but then again I'm probably the most eager here to do subpages [lol]; at least in this case we'd have another quote for Marvel <Strucker's> and an easy quote and image>).
  • [tup] Maax.
  • Thanks VM...think I may give DW a try. Won't cost me any $ if I don't like it.
  • HT answered my question on Giselle (thanks BTW HT), but what about Kakuzawa?

edited 5th Feb '16 1:04:15 AM by ACW

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52038: Feb 5th 2016 at 4:16:43 AM

[tup]Coyote.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52041: Feb 5th 2016 at 8:27:19 AM

  • Jack and the Witch: Queen Auriana is an evil witch and the ruler of her domain. Auriana abducts children and transforms them into creatures known as harpies note  to serve as her slaves, seeking to extend her rule throughout her realm. The children themselves live in constant fear of Auriana, being forced to kidnap more children to serve her. Those who fail are banished to the Cavern of Eternal Ice, where they will surely freeze to death. When one of the harpies, Allegra, fails to capture Jack, Auriana exiles her to the ice caverns, taking the time to taunt her for not being human. She then captures Jack's friends and attempts to force them to watch as Jack and Allegra freeze to death in the ice caverns. When Jack rescues Allegra, Auriana destroys the caverns and brutally attacks the two children as they attempt to flee, nearly killing them. When her globe, the source of her powers, is destroyed, Auriana attempts to blow up the castle with everyone inside it, just to spite Jack.
  • The Blood Keeper (Link): The titular "blood keeper" was the leader of the Bloodlights, a cult of serial killers from the 1800s. The blood keeper held a "game" to serve as a trial for new recruits. The blood keeper kept vials filled with the blood of their murder victims, and divided the new recruits into two teams, as they tried to steal the blood from him. He told the recruits to kill any members of the opposing team they saw, as well as any innocent bystanders they came across. Any recruits who failed to steal the blood would be killed. In total, the blood keeper was responsible for more than 50 murders due to his game. The blood keeper was killed by a man who infiltrated the Bloodlights and forced a boy to lure the blood keeper out of his crypt. The blood keeper would have killed the boy if the man hadn't have stopped him.
  • Barbarian Queen: King Arrakur and his army wipe out Amethea's village, taking the men and forcing them to be gladiators, and taking the women, including Amethea's younger sister, to be sex slaves, with Arrakur taking the sister as his new concubine. Arrakur allows his men to murder, rape and murder as they please, gladly taking part in their brutality. He captures Amethea and tortures her for information on the whereabouts of the rebel force, even trying to force himself on her.
  • The Beastmaster: Maax was the High Priest of Aruk prior to being banished by King Zed, who learned Maax was planning to sacrifice Zed's unborn son. In retaliation, Maax ordered his witch servants to magically extract the infant from his mother's womb and kill him anyways, witt thr infant, Dar, only surviving because local villagers rescued him. Years later, Maax led the Juns in conquering Aruk, blinding and imprisoning Zed. Maax presides over brutal oppression of the kingdom, regularly sacrificing children to his god, Ar. He wipes out Dar's village, leading him into conflict with Dar himself. When Dar enters Maax's prison to free Zed, he discovers that Maax has innocent people tortured and transformed into mindless beasts to serve as his guards. Maax later attempts to have Zed, his young son, and his cousin Kiri sacrificed to Ar. He then taunts Zed by revealing Dar is his son before killing him.
  • Kiss of Death: Tommy Udo is a psychotic killer who shows his sadism by finding the elderly, wheelchair-bound mother of a man he believes betrayed him and shoving her down the stairs in the wheelchair, killing her. Udo loose cannon who fully intends to murder The Hero—and the hero's children—simply out of paranoia the hero might know something about Udo's business due to sharing a cell with him years prior. Utterly insane, the giggling Tommy Udo was an early example of a Complete Monster in film.
  • FBI Profiler Series, by Lisa Gardner:
    • The Perfect Husband: Jim Beckett, a brutal Serial Killer with an intense hatred of women, marries a young woman, whom he enjoys mentally abusing and occasionally raping. In his spare time, Beckett rapes, tortures and murders women, desecrating the bodies afterwards; in one case, he inserted a tree branch into one of his victims. Beckett even brags that upon the death of one, he went to visit her dying father in the hospital and told the man exactly what he'd done to his daughter. After he escapes from prison, Beckett kills several police officers and rapes and murders his fangirl accomplice. He later tortures a policeman to death with a knife and sets about trying to find his former wife who got him caught so he can slowly torture her to death as well.
    • The Third Victim: Richard Mann, real name Henry Hawkins, is an egomaniac who gets off on holding power over others. His crime, which he has done at least twice before, is to manipulate a troubled child until the child is utterly dependent upon him. He then has the child commit a school shooting, resulting in two deaths while Mann himself murders a teacher who will be mistaken for a victim of the rampage, where Mann can simply abandon his erstwhile apprentice. Mann threatens the shooter and his sister if they say anything. When the heroine, Rainie, gets too close, Mann sends the murdered teacher's father a sex tape of her and the principal so he'll kill the principal and Mann can take his time killing Rainie and then kill everyone else who knows about him before skipping town to continue his game.
  • The Neighbor, by Lisa Gardner: Judge Maxwell Black, a respected judge, is attempting to recover his granddaughter from his son-in-law Jason, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Black's daughter Sandy. It is revealed that Black has killed two men who may have been Sandra's lovers, but worse, Black had murdered his own wife when she had abused Sandra; this was solely because Black had grown tired of his wife, and Sandra was old enough to "replace" her, so Black didn't want her to damage Sandra and ruin her for Black's appetites. After years of raping his daughter—who had an abortion at 16—, Black murdered the other men to frame Jason, and later attempts to kill Jason as well, when it is revealed Sandra is alive and had planned to trap her father with Jason. It is revealed Black intends to take his four-year-old granddaughter to serve as a new replacement for Sandra, the knowledge of which leads Sandra to shoot her father dead on the spot.
  • Shadow Man, by Cody McFadyen:
    • Jack Jr.- Peter Hillstead—believes himself to be a descendant of Jack the Ripper, and seeks to immortalize himself in history even more so than his ancestor. Trained to torture and kill at a young age by his Serial Killer father, Jack Jr. gleefully assisted his dad in his crimes. After murdering his father, partially because he believed him to be an inadequade descendant of the Ripper, compared to himself, Jack Jr began raping and killing over the years. Regularly manipulating people into murdering others for him, Jack Jr. wastes no time in betraying and killing his acolytes when he grows tired of them, and he used one of them to ensure the deaths of FBI agent Smoky Barrett's husband and young daughter. Declaring Barrett his nemesis, Jack Jr. spent hours torturing and raping Barrett's childhood friend while forcing her 10 year-old daughter, Bonnie, to watch. Jack Jr. then tied Bonnie to the eviscerated corpse of her mother and left her there for 3 days, the resulting trauma causing the girl to become mute. Next, Jack Jr. begins specifically torturing members of Barrett's task force, with methods such as digging up and defiling the corpse of one agent's sister, and chopping off the legs of another agent's dog. When his identity is revealed, Jack Jr. kidnaps one of Barrett's friends, tortures her, then tries to slash Bonnie's throat open while using her as a Human Shield. Though manipulated by his father into killing, Jack Jr. chose to continue his spree even after his father was removed from the picture and his mother tried to redeem him. Happily embracing his dark side while simultaneously preaching his victims are nothing but cattle, Jack Jr. embodied and evolved the legacy of The Ripper.
    • Keith Hillstead is the aforementioned father of Jack Jr., and is the one responsible for starting his path of destruction. As a young man, Keith believed himself to be a descendant of Jack the Ripper, and murdered his parents for trying to hide it from him. After seducing a young woman into becoming his wife, Keith spent weeks torturing and raping her until she gave birth to a son, who he then began to teach how to torture and kill. Claiming close to 100 victims over the years, Keith photographed the tortures, rapes, and deaths of his victims and kept them in an album. When his wife attempted to murder him, Keith violently raped and pummelled her, before trying to slit her throat. With a polite and calm exterior masking his true depravity, Keith Hillstead stood out as monstrous even with his limited appearances.
  • Abu Fayed from season 6 stands out as having one of the highest body counts on the show. He is responsible for orchestrating dozens of suicide bombings across America, as well as torturing Jack Bauer and selling out his former partner, Hamri Al-Assad, after Assad betrayed him and his cause. After Fayed convinces the government to release one hundred prisoners, Fayed uses one of the prisoners to arm a nuclear bomb, which is later detonated, killing at least 12,000 civilians in the Los Angeles area. He later captures and tortures Morris O'Brian with a drill until Morris breaks and creates a triggering device for the nukes, one of which Fayed activates. With the help of Dmitri Gredenko, he conspires to set off the remaining nukes across America. After his plans fail and Fayed is captured, Fayed escapes and attempts to set off the final two nukes in downtown Los Angeles.
  • Phillip Bauer, also from season 6, was Jack's father and a Corrupt Corporate Executive who helped mastermind a conspiracy that reached all the way to the President and nearly started World War III. Phillip helped have a previous president assassinated as part of this conspiracy, and multiple innocents died thanks to his actions, which. To cover his tracks Phillip murders his co-conspirator younger son Graem, and later sells out his country upon being discovered, annoyed at the lack of appreciation for his work. Phillip kidnapped his grandson, fully willing to kill him if the boy didn't conform to Phillip's standards of his legacy.

edited 8th Feb '16 2:20:50 AM by ACW

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52042: Feb 5th 2016 at 1:14:30 PM

I'll accept more votes for Maax, but I'll submit a write-up now to go with the new batch.

  • The Beastmaster: Maax was the High Priest of Aruk prior to being banished by King Zed after he learned that Maax was planning to sacrifice Zed's unborn son. In retaliation, Maax ordered his witch servants to magically extract the infant from his mother's womb and kill it anyways. The infant, Dar, only survives because local villagers rescued him. Years later, Maax led the Juns in conquering Aruk, blinding Zed and imprisoning him. Maax presides over brutal oppression of the kingdom, regularly sacrificing children to his god, Ar. He wipes out Dar's village, leading him into conflict with him. When Dar enters Maax's prison to free Zed, he discovers that Maax has innocent people tortured and transformed into mindless beasts to serve as his guards. Maax later attempts to have Zed, his son, and his cousin Kiri sacrificed to Ar. He then taunts Zed by revealing that Dar is his son before killing him.

edited 5th Feb '16 2:39:51 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52043: Feb 5th 2016 at 2:30:31 PM

Clown-Face: Here please. I'll tweak it tomorrow, along with trying to condense Jack Jr.'s and doing an effortpost for Judge Cal, so we can get final closure once and for all.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52044: Feb 5th 2016 at 2:46:44 PM

[up]Done. Side-note, I'm reading Lucy Kincaid, and its Big Bad unfortunately doesn't count due to Even Evil Has Loved Ones.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52045: Feb 5th 2016 at 3:05:30 PM

So I guess Malik was a [tdown]?
Also, Director Kakuzawa?

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52046: Feb 5th 2016 at 3:20:34 PM

[up]Lucy Kincaid is a crime novel series I started reading.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#52047: Feb 5th 2016 at 3:23:50 PM

Oh, my post was unrelated to that. Just other issues I'm not sure we got closure on.
Though, would either of these 2 count?

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#52048: Feb 5th 2016 at 3:30:09 PM

That's what I said. Nicole and Tobias don't count due to Even Evil Has Loved Ones (Nicole loves her boyfriend, and Tobias apparently has a teenage girl he views as a sort of sister)

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#52050: Feb 5th 2016 at 4:19:14 PM

[tup] to Maxx and Coyote

Here's an attempted condensing of Jack Jr.'s write-up.

  • Jack Jr.- Peter Hillstead-believes he is a descendant of Jack the Ripper, and seeks to immortalize himself in history more than his ancestor. Trained to torture and kill at a young age by his Serial Killer father, Jack Jr. gleefully assisted his dad in his crimes, and, after murdering his father, partially because he believed him to be an inadequate descendant of The Ripper, Jack Jr. began raping and killing numerous women over the years. Regularly manipulating people into murdering others for him, Jack Jr. wastes no time in killing his acolytes when he grows tired of them, and used one of them to ensure the torture and deaths of Smoky Barrett's husband and child daughter. Declaring Barrett his nemesis, Jack Jr. spent hours torturing and raping her childhood friend while forcing the woman's 10 year-old daughter, Bonnie, to watch, at which point he tied Bonnie to the eviscerated corpse of her mother and left her there for 3 days, leaving the girl traumatised. Next, Jack Jr. begins torturing members of Barrett's task force with methods such as digging up and defiling the corpse of one agent's sister, and chopping off the legs of another agent's dog. When his identity is revealed, Jack Jr. kidnaps one of Barrett's friends, tortures her, then tries to slash Bonnie's throat open while using her as a Human Shield. Though manipulated by his father into killing, Jack Jr. chose to continue his spree even after his father's death and his mother tried to redeem him. Happily embracing his dark side while preaching his victims are nothing but cattle, Jack Jr. embodied and evolved the legacy of The Ripper.

Note: Added the "partially" to "because he believed him to be an inadequate descendant" because it's stated by his mom he did it when he was a teen to save her, but then HE implies it's because Keith was inadequate Ripper. So, since the narrative never states a definitive reason, I added the "partially".

edited 5th Feb '16 11:39:17 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

Total posts: 326,048
Top