During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to Kraang Prime...boy, he seems a far cry from the original Krang we all know and love!
@MovieFan: All right, seems like I worded myself wrong with what I'm trying to say. >__<
There's nothing shown onscreen that implies Fayed really cared about his brother. He's just mad at Jack because he killed him. Throughout the series we've had villains who do have loved ones who have moments, even brief, that show they had some loved one they cared about (Andre Drazen, for example, has a moment where he mistakes a waitress for his sister. And later, he tells Kim Bauer, whom he kidnapped, that she used to be a photographer).
But Fayed doesn't do any of this. There's no photo of him with his brother, no flashback, no Tragic Keepsake, nothing. He doesn't even mention his brother's name. It should also be pointed out, after Bauer escapes, Fayed seemed to forget about his quest for vengeance very quickly in favor of his terrorist attacks on LA. Again, Fayed never seems to even consider trying to recapture and torture Jack Bauer; he kinda just shrugged it off. If he was really out for revenge, wouldn't he be a little more determined on trying to kill him again?
After looking at Phillip Bauer and the whole ordeal with his son, I feel like Fayed's brother was somewhat similar. The 24 wiki mentions that his brother was part of a terrorist cell, and so was Fayed. Maybe Fayed's not pissed at Jack for killing someone he cared about. Maybe he's pissed because he "destroyed" an "asset" that was very valuable to his terrorist schemes.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.It's... very doubtful Giselle counts at this stage. She linked up with the heroes along with Liltotto and Bazz-B after Yhwach pulled a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness, and the three of them attacked Yhwach and Haschwalth on their own. Predictably, it didn't go well, and it's unknown whether they're alive or not at present.
It tosses out a rather interesting premise very quickly and becomes a below average Fighting Series.
Well I just decided to fix my laptop, way cheaper that way. My laptop is now working right again. So I am ready to propose Coyote, another nasty obscure comic book villain (maybe I am falling to into a rut
):
Who is Coyote? What has done?
Coyote is a unnamed criminal who volunteered for an experiment that duplicated the powers of Spot, a teleporting D-list Spidey villain. This experiment involved putting Spot in a rather painful looking contraption and transferring his powers to Coyote.
Coyote uses his new powers to become a professional criminal contractor. He kills drug lords by teleporting all the blood out of their bodies, uses his powers to smuggle drugs across the globe and is hired to help a Middles eastern warlord to reopen his weapons supply lines, which he does by ramming a truck through the tunnel they were transporting weapons through, killing several of the warlord's men in the process, seemingly just for kicks.
Coyote also decided to become a human smuggler. Using his powers, he finds a way to remove people's heads, but not kill them, leaving their bodies intact and able to do tasks, while he keeps the heads. He sends these headless bodies out to be slaves and not just manual labor slaves, we see him deliver several nearly naked female bodies to some creepy Sheikh. This process seems to leave the victims in a state of extreme pain, with DD noting how loud the screams of the heads are.
Bullseye hires Coyote to mess with DD, so Coyote teleports The skull of his dead father into Matt's Murdock's desk. He Also teleports Matt's ex wife Milla (who was driven insane by Mr. Fear and was committed to an asylum) into his bed room, also attempting to dive him mad.
And just to show how much of a bad experience Coyote put his victims through, after Matt frees them, both Spot and his former slaves both try to kill Coyote.
Is he heinious by the standards of the work?
Well DD has a high heinious standard, with monsters like Bullseye, Mr. Fear and Purple Man (I'm not going to bother comparing Copperhead, considering how much more powerful he is then any standard DD villain).
There are also other villains like Kingpin, Bushwacker, Owl, Rogut , Johnny Sockets who are heinious in different ways, but don't count.
But no other DD villain is a slaver and human trafficker, so that might make him stand out.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Yeah right, the guy is a greedy psychopathic criminal, committing vile crimes for fun and profit.
He claims that the experiment that gave him his powers was painful, but so what, that doesn't come close to justifying anything he did.
You can also argue his benefactors tortured Spot and gave him his powers, but again so what. He keeps Spot a tortured prisoner to keep his powers and most of his vile operations are his own initiative.
Final Verdict?
I think he could count, despite the high heinious standard in DD.
Also when would Kraang Prime's arc be over? In theory Ramsay Snow's arc is still going and we accepted him as a monster long ago. Really its been 4 and a half seasons and Kraang Prime has gotten worse. Really the writers would have to give a sympathetic quality out of the blue at this point for him not to count.
edited 4th Feb '16 5:32:39 PM by Overlord
@Overlord: Teleporting blood out of bodies. .....Interesting.
Coyote.
Also I don't know when the Kraang Prime's arc will end. I agree with you that he/she/it/whatever-damn-gender-it-is would've had some kind of sympathetic backstory or excuse, something established by now. And yes, with each season, Kraang Prime only seems to get worse and worse. But I fully understand many voters abstaining after what happened to Dagur.
"Really the writers would have to give a sympathetic quality out of the blue at this point for him not to count."
Well the writers did destroy the whole world for shock value, and then brought it back immediately at the start of Season 4. And I've noticed some of the writers' decisions regarding certain aspects of the show have been questionable. Or annoying. So I wouldn't rule out a sudden sympathetic quality (look at the Espheni Queen, for example).
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.![]()
That's how it is sometimes. Ah well. I'll stash Kraang Prime in the "Put on Hold" folder for now, and let you all know if something new develops.
I do highly recommend watching the series though. It's thoroughly entertaining (minus the drug-induced Filler episodes) and the story arcs and fighting sequences are all wonderful. Both kids and young adults will enjoy the new TMNT. And trying to choose which mutant is your favorite one.
@Very Melon, Don't forget good old Madara Uchiha. His redeeming quality was so vague I don't even remember why he was voted down, though it may have been because he wanted to get it on with the First Hokage.
edited 4th Feb '16 6:52:55 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
