During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Since Auriana has been getting mostly yes votes, I'll do a write-up, though feel free to add any more comments.
- Jack and the Witch: Queen Auriana is an evil witch and the ruler of her domain. Auriana abducts children and transforms them into harpies to serve as her slaves, seeking to extend her rule throughout her realm. The children themselves live in constant fear of Auriana, being forced to kidnap more children to serve her. Those who fail her are banished to the Cavern of Eternal Ice, where they will surely freeze to death. When one of the harpies, Allegra, fails to capture Jack, Auriana exiles her to the ice caverns, taking the time to taunt her for not being human. She then captures Jack's friends and attempts to force them to watch as Jack and Allegra freeze to death in the ice caverns. When Jack rescues Allegra, Auriana destroys the caverns and brutally attacks the two children as they attempt to flee, nearly killing them. When her globe, the source of her powers, is destroyed, Auriana attempts to blow up the castle with everyone inside it, just to spite Jack.
edited 1st Feb '16 7:47:50 AM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?@Very Melon: I think he said he was leaving the forum so he could avoid any Gravity Falls spoilers. After all, this thread has a bad history of people blabbing about spoilers before the date a show is supposed to be discussed. But of course, this assumes he watches it in the first place.
I wouldn't be surprised. I stayed off this forum for over a week to avoid The Force Awakens spoilers.
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More or less.
You gotta go to that one unlocking page forum thingy where you request to have a locked page temporarily unlocked so it can be edited and the image can be added. I forgot what it was; I think ACW linked me to it before.
Alright, new proposal time.
Now, this guy is another crime novel villain, but I'm not as sure about him as my other proposals, not due to heinousness, sweet MERCY, no. But because he has an....interesting...backstory.
In fact, in terms of heinousness, he is one of the most wicked Serial Killers I've ever seen.
After this one, I have another proposal from the same novel.
Anywho, spoilers for 2006 crime novel, The Shadow Man!!!
Who is he?
"Jack Jr." AKA, Peter Hillstead, is a depraved Serial Killer who believes he is a descendant of Jack The Ripper.
Born to Keith Hillstead, Jack Jr had a fairly normal childhood. That is, until he turned 8 years old. See, Keith was actually a Serial Killer who was (Or at least THOUGHT he was) a descendant of Jack the Ripper.
Keith began "educating" Jack Jr in the art of torturing and killing women in the name of their "legacy", and while at first Jack was implied to be horrified, he quickly became fascinated by killing....
What has he done?
Jack Jr began happily assisting his father in torturing, raping, and killing "Whores."
When Jack Jr, now a teenager's, father tries to murder his mother, Jack Jr betrays and kills him, knowing he can claim it was self-defense (He actually had grown to hate his father, as he believed he wasn't as good of a descendant of The Ripper as he himself was).
Jack Jr continued his little spree, eventually being kicked out of the house by his mother. He went on to torture, rape, and gut an innocent stripper.
Becoming an FBI psychologist, Jack Jr began looking for an "archnemesis," much like how The Ripper had Inspector Abberline. Finally finding a potential nemesis in FBI agent Smoky Barrett, Jack Jr gives an infamous serial killer the location of Barrett's home and access to it, leading to the torture and death of the woman's husband and preteen daughter.
Barrett survived the ordeal, though horribly scarred both physically and mentally.
Jack Jr began recruting "Acolytes" to his cause, using them to torture and murder numerous innocents in his name, then betrayed and killed the schmucks.
WARNING: The following crime committed by Jack Jr is one of the most despicable crimes I have seen in any media ever. If you have a queasy stomach, I implore you, skip the following paragraph.
Going after an internet "Porn Star", who is also Barrett's childhood best friend, Jack Jr breaks in, ties the woman and her 10 year old daughter up, then tortures and rapes the woman for hours while listening to the Rolling Stones. While forcing her daughter to watch. Jack Jr then guts the woman, then ties the 10 year old girl face-to-face to the mother's corpse and leaves her there for 3 days before alerting the authorities. He videotapes the entire ordeal, then sends a montage of it the Barrett. He also left a window cracked just to let flies in to fester apon the corpse and the little girl.
Jack Jr only let the little girl live because his new nemesis, Barrett, was her godmother, and he wanted Barrett to have to deal with the now catatonic girl.
The girl, Bonnie, breaks out of her catatonia after a few days, but is so traumatized she will likely never speak again.
Jack Jr then begins specifically screwing with Barrett's entire task force.
He digs up the corpse of one of the agent's dead sister and defiles it.
He breaks into a man's home while he's gone and saws off the limbs of his dog, leaving it alive and suffering for him to find.
He sends one of the agent's wives classified medical records that reveal she has Stage 3 cancer, something the agent was trying to hide from her because he knew it would terrify her.
Jack Jr then kidnaps and tortures with a baseball bat/rapes for hours another Porn Star, leaving a video montage of it behind once again.
Sending 4 of his acolytes to capture another woman and Bonnie, 3 out of 4 are killed in the process, though they take 2 Agents, with them and nearly cripple another.
Realising Barrett has discovered his identity, Jack Jr kidnaps Bonnie and Elaina, one of Barrett's other best friends, and strips Elaina naked and tortures her, carving a game of Tic-Tac-Toe into her stomach.
Getting Barrett to meet him alone, Jack Jr forces her to slash her own face open, promising to release Elaina if she does so. He lied, and plans to rape and kill Elaina anyway, then tries to slash Bonnie's throat open, using her as a human shield the whole time, hoping Barett will shoot to kill him, and hit Bonnie in the process.
Barrett is a better shot than he anticipated, however, and shoots him square in the eye, murdering him.
Throughout the novel, Jack Jr is a smug, Faux Affably Evil misogynist. That is all.
Ah, my hesitations.
First, Jack Jr's father was a Serial Killer who trained him to be one. While this is bad, Jack Jr very quickly began assisting his father with sadistic glee, making the claims that his father turned him evil being....thin, to say the least.
Also, Jack Jr never once tries to use it as an excuse. HE HIMSELF says he has no excuse, no reason, no nothing. He's evil because he likes it. He commits crimes that have nothing to do with what his father "taught" him, and this is acknowledged in-universe as him "Evolving" into something more wicked than just a Ripper copycat.
Finally, he actually isn't descended from The Ripper. He just thinks he is, and that his "bloodline" is inherently better than the rest of humanity, and his "goal" is to make himself the greatest star of The Ripper legacy. Nothing substantial, just putting his primary motivation out there.
Redeeming features?
His only one is that, as a teenager, he was nice to his mother, and when she kicked him out, while saying she wouldn't tell anyone what he had done, he said he "understood" and loved her, left...then proceeded to never had anything to do with her ever again. By the present, Jack Jr never even thinks about his mother, showing that he has grown past whatever care he had for her. She is now rotting away with guilt from not telling anyone that her son was a psychopath. So, there you go.
Heinousness?
There are numerous Serial Killer(s) in this book, but most of them (Bar his father, my next potential candidate) were only so wicked because of his prodding.
Besides that, he way, way, WAY surpasses the baseline.
Final Verdict?
It all depends on how we factor his father.
Did he push him into evil faster? Sure.
Would Jack Jr have still become evil had his father NOT been a killer? Most likely.
But, I myself am a wee bit undecided, so VOTE AWAY!
edited 2nd Feb '16 1:57:57 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!On other news, I watched Kung Fu Panda 3 last night. I'll refrain from talking about Kai until the two weeks are up.
edited 2nd Feb '16 8:50:30 AM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?As much as I despise voting this way since Jack Jr. sounds incredibly vile, I don't think I can vote yes on him. I mean, even if he says he's evil because he enjoys it, he was still an eight-year-old kid who was taught by his father to enjoy raping, torturing and murdering women. I think it's safe to say that any child who grew up in such an environment would grow up to be a Serial Killer. I'm not saying it's a sympathetic excuse because it isn't portrayed as such, but it does sound like an excuse that didn't leave him with much choice in what he became. If he lived in an environment where this mentality was bred into him, where these crimes were expected and guilt wasn't, how could he have become anything else but a monster?
Plus, there's the issue of his mom. He treated her nice as a teenager, saved her from his father's attempted murder, and let her kick him out of the house without any hard feelings. And yes, while he doesn't think of her in the present day, I'd still argue that leaving a person alive who knows all of your crimes and is a huge risk to you personally, is probably an indicator he still has some affection for her.
So I'd say he's a 99% monster and unfortunately will vote no.
Hmmmmm, yes. Those were close to my thoughts as well. I know I'm the one who effortposted him, but I'm just not sure I actually approve of him getting added thanks to stuff like that. Hmmmmm....
Anywho, I'll probably effortpost the father, Keith Hillstead, soon. He doesn:'t have as many crimes as his son, but this is mainly due to lack of screentime.
edited 2nd Feb '16 8:44:03 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

I'm leaving the forum.