During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@ Emperors: Well, I have not played the game with Frollo in it, so I guess I will just take your word for it. I would like to say though that I find it rather impressive that KH Scar does not count, seeing how they made him even worse. They added a whole new plot involving Scar's ghost, and they had him wanting to eat Sora after he was turned into a lion, making him an attempted cannibal.
Anyway, here is an effortpost on Dracolin:
Who is Dracolin?
Dracolin is a dragon, and one of Trowzer's minions.
What does he do?
Under Trowzer's orders, Dracolin attacks Yoshi island. He burns down a village and kills all the inhabitants. Capturing a group of Yoshi children, Dracolin takes them back to a cave where he holds them captive, forbidden from killing them at the time since Trowzer believes that they might prove useful. Dacolin taunts the kids, stating that once Trowzer does not need them anymoe, he (Dracolin) will eat them. When Hooktail (a dragon from the game Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, who is also a villain, and in this story, was a part of Trowzer's forces at first but later joined the heroes not because of a change of heart but because she hated him moe then she hated her already established enemies) arrives, she is disgusted that he would harm kids. While Dracolin knows nothing of Hooktail switching sides, he is still suspicious when she offers to take his place guarding the kids when Trowzer never ordered her to. To get her to prove that she has not changed sides, and is not planning to free the kids, challenges her to eat one of the children, stating that Trowzer will not care if just one of them is eaten. Hooktail ingests the Yosh child, but does not actually eat it. Dacolin fails to notice this and is convinced. Hooktail spits the child back out and helps them escape afte he leaves. Later, Dracolin comes across Hooktail and a different group of Yoshi childen. Dracolin kills a little pink girl Yoshi by stomping on it; he wasn't even hungry, he just felt like it. Dracolin then states that he intends to kill all the other Yoshi children in the group, stating that there will still be plenty left on the island for Trowzer to use. Disgusted with the act of not only killing a child, but doing it for fun instead of hunger, a shocked and horrified Hooktail immediately goes from being in an Enemy Mine situation to making a complete Heel–Face Turn, as she graphically disembowels Dracolin.
Henious standard?
He's worse than any other character in the story excepting Trowzer.
Redeeming features or mitigating factors?
No redeeming factors, though he was a henchman, and he was Just Following Orders when he burnt the village, not that he did not get a real kick out of doing it though (he did). The stuff with the children though was of his own maliciousness.
jjjFound this at The Unfunnies:
- Complete Monster: Troy Hicks is a pedophilic serial killer and Satanist who escapes from death row by using occultism to contact and switch places with one of the characters in his funny animal comic strip. Troy proceeds to use the omnipotence he possesses within the strip to commit and instigate atrocities, intending to continue doing so for all eternity, knowing that no one and nothing can stop him. He's last seen walking off into the sunset with a couple's newborn baby while the toon he tricked into swapping lives with him is brutalized and executed.
- Complete Monster: Troy Hicks intentionally turns a cartoon world into a horrifying Crapsack World for shits and giggles. He knows they're not just drawings, since he switched places with a poor sucker from that world to escape death row, where he was on due to his being a child molester/killer.
No. That's why we have Johan Liebert from Monster as an example.
Didn't do Kilgrave any good, either. Rejecting the chance to be a better person arguably does quite a bit to cement a villain as irredeemable.
I'll give a
to both Mario fic examples. Sounds like it actually has a plot. Similarly I remeber a ''Big Time Rush fanfic I read a while back that had a serial killer/serial rapist antagonist, although I'm not bringing him up due to the fact he had multiple personality disorder.
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And this is why I hate fanfiction. In general.
I'm not going to bother casting a vote for the Mario fanfic villains. Whether it started as lighthearted or not, including villains like that in a world as fluffy as Mario's is such an misuse of the original universe that it frankly disgusts me.
edited 29th Jan '16 5:17:43 PM by Scraggle
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Considering I'm a fanfiction writer, I can assure you that there are quite a few worth reading.
On other news, I'm going to be watching Kung Fu Panda 3 as soon as I get the opportunity.
Why so serious?Mario can get pretty dark at times. At least two villains have tried to destroy the Multiverse, with it being treated as a complete atrocity. I don't see how rapists and child murders in the setting violates the "setting has to be capable of having a CM" rule, and it appears to not be plotless bullshit Dark Fic. It might be bullshit Dark Fic with a plot, but I think those were allowed under the new rules. At least, that's how I interpreted it when I wrote them, but I think rules on threads such as these fall under Death of the Author in that regard.
The problem is that the setting is not normally like that, in any regard. Super Paper Mario may have been dark in a lot of places but never exactly went beyond the boundary of family-friendly and still took a lot of liberties to remain as such, given some of the subject matter. Remember; characters like King Boo and Dimentio are the exception rather than the norm.
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If it's written into a setting that maybe makes sense to have it, like, say, A Song of Ice and Fire? I can respect it, if it's written well, and I think it's safe to say there's more bad fanfiction than there is good fanfiction. But inserting gratuitous rape, torture, murder, and, well, Complete Monsters (refer to my above comment) in a setting like Mario, where that sort of stuff has literally no place in? Listen, I know this kind of stuff appeals to a lot of people, but it goes beyond Vile Villain, Saccharine Show and veers into "pointless darkness for the sake of darkness" and that's an indication of piss-poor writing if I've ever heard of it. The fact that a setting like My Little Pony has entire sub-genres of fanfiction devoted to torture porn is such a sharp contrast to the setting it makes me a little nauseous.
I'm sure there's good fanfiction out there, quality material that can either stay true to the show or twist it a little bit in admirably new ways. But taking a lighthearted setting and sprinkling with grimdark bullcrap for the sole reason of making it "edgy" ticks me off to no end, and I still stand that these kinds of fanfiction should just be skipped over in entirety because they're not worth analyzing. I'm glad we installed the rules barring out all the mindless Torture Porn, frankly.
edited 29th Jan '16 10:01:49 PM by Scraggle
I gotta agree with Scraggle. I hate fan fiction and never read any of it (no offense Clown-Face). And frankly, anytime a villain from a Fan Fic get proposed, I roll my eyes because I know for sure that is a media I am not gonna try out. And keep in mind that anytime new villain gets proposed, I have a tendency to check out their media.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I will admit that the story did not appeal to me that much (though the fanfic has a lot of positive reviews on Fanfiction.Net). Actually, there was this one part in the story that really offended me: When it's revealed that Trowzer did not actually rape Peach but rather, a koopa dessed up as her that he mistook for the real deal, Peach says that it's funny because he raped a guy. Only one review really commented on that bit:
"I didn't see any Author's Notes addressing it, and while I know that you tend to address the story itself through the characters, I honestly didn't want to continue reading after this, from the scene in which Peach revealed someone else was raped in her place (also, way to not feel any guilt whatsoever for that, Peachy!):
"Think of this way: now all the readers can laugh because they realized Trowzer raped a guy."
Ex...cept it isn't actually that funny at all? Men do actually get raped in real life. A lot of times it goes unreported because, surprise!, there are jackholes who don't take it seriously and reduce it and its victims to a punchline! It's people like you that perpetuate a society that shits all over rape victims of all genders, backgrounds, and ages.
Two points for realizing that maybe raping Peach for drama and laughs is cheap at best and sexist at worst. Negative fifty for turning the joke into "haha he raped a dude" instead."
jjj
I can see how a "joke" like that would be upsetting and would lead to someone immediately dropping the fic altogether. >__>
Anyways, non-fanfic stuff aside, you guys really think that 24 quote would work?
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Here's the thing for me regarding fanfic. If a fanfic is, first of all, well-written, and second of all, has a villain whose atrocities could exist in the actual work, then I'd be all for them counting.
However, when you take a franchise that has never exceeded the E10+ rating, and create a fic that has rape, torture, and the like, that's where I, personally, draw the line.
Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd make it a rule that, for a fanfic villain to count, he/she has to have crimes/a personality that could exist in the work it's based off of. But, it's not up to me, so I'm just abstaining.
edited 29th Jan '16 6:10:52 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!![]()
I do in terms of the quote, and I've been sold on Phillip. Think you'll be able to rewrite Fayed soon if he's a keeper?
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...and obligatory out-of-character dialogue for the purpose of mocking rape. Hell and biscuits, can you see my points?
Anyhow, that's all I have to say on the subject of fanfiction. Vote up the villains because I suppose they're keepers in any regard, but I'd like to implore that people search out more... respectable material to propose from.
edited 29th Jan '16 6:11:45 PM by Scraggle

Binge-watching 24 while simultaneously coding is going to do wonders on my eyeballs.
Okay, this is probably gonna be the final update on Phillip Bauer. According to him, what happened in Season 6 is that Gredenko found out that Phillip was behind Palmer's assassination (because the plot says so). Anyway, Gredenko blackmailed Phillip into selling nuclear bombs to him, but Phillip had no idea that Gredenko sold the bombs to Fayed.
This does not redeem him.
Phillip didn't know what Gredenko would do with the bombs, no. But he should've known that nothing good would come of it. And even after the bomb detonated, he didn't even try to get the authorities involved. He just wanted to hunt down and kill Gredenko to cover his own ass. He cared more about his reputation and his company's legacy than recovering the nuclear bombs. As Lightysnake mentioned before, Phillip spared Jack simply because he expected him to catch Gredenko for him.
Graem wasn't a son to Phillip. He was an asset. And he overused that "asset" until it broke. Then he disposed of it.
For anyone still on the fence, if you have Season 6 (or Amazon Prime, where the whole series is up there for free), watch the conversation between him and Jack at the end of "3:00pm - 4:00pm". He shows his true colors there.
Phillip: "I'm a patriot, Jack. I never wanted any harm to come to this country."
Jack: "You wanna lie to yourself, you go ahead, but stop lying to me! You let all of this happen just so you could cover up what you did!"
Phillip: (grins) "You have all the smarts that Graem never had."
I think I'm sold now. Phillip stays.
edited 30th Jan '16 6:11:08 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.