During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Now, Sal-Soo, AKA: The Killer
Sal-Soo is a vicious underground gambler who specializes in Go/Baduk. at the film's opening, Tae-Seok, the hero, is contacted by his brother to assist him in a game against Sal-Soo by cheating. Things go wrong and Sal-Soo finds out.
Sal-Soo has Tae-Seok's brother tortured and forces Tae-Seok to play him. Tae-Seok's brother is also beaten by go pieces places in a sock. Very savagely. He is then forced to eat the stones while Tae-Seok is forced to play for his brother's life. He loses, and Sal-Soo violently murders his brother framing Tae-Seok for it.
Tae-Seok becomes a total badass in jail, gets out and hooks up with his brother's former mentor and friends for payback. Sal-Soo expands his miniature empire by also acquiring a little girl who is actually a Go prodigy, using her to cheat at games, by broadcasting them to her and using a wireless transmitter in his ear for her to tell him her plays. The girl is basically a slave, with Sal-Soo showing no affection beyond her usefulness in making him money. We see Sal-Soo terrorize others into submission and simply kill others to get ahead. When Tae-Seok gets one of Sal-Soo's lieutenants on his bad side, Sal-Soo forces him to play an online game with Tae-Seok on the other end When said lieutenant loses, Sal Soo chops out said lieutenant's tongue.
When he takes on Tae-Seok's friend and the Team Dad of the group, Drinking Christ, a legendary Go figure, he lures him out by torturing one of Drinking Christ's students, Cheater, who's a friend of Tae-Seok, forcing him to play a game of Go with a noose choking him and breaking a finger with every 'wrong' move. when drinking Christ challenges him, he realizes the 'purity' of Sal-Soo's game is entirely at odds with his monstrosity. Sal-Soo stabs Drinking Christ to death with the line "Go over the game in your grave!"
When Tae-Seok and Sal-Soo finally have their match, Sal-Soo also stabs Tae-Seok's love interest before they have their last battle, ending in a one on one where Tae-Seok kills him
A response to the Elf Quest entry positions, I suggested Guttlekraw go first since he was only relevant for the original comic. Winnowill lasted for most of the run and the Djun clan picked up after her death.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.And Richard Mann:
The Third Victim picks up when our heroine, Rainie, an agent, arrives at a school during a shooting. Several children are injured, two little girls killed. A teacher is also killed. The perpetrator is 13 year old Danny O'Grady, found with two guns, and bone-white But Rainie thinks something isn't right about this, and we soon learn someone is behind it...and stalking her
Who Is He? What's He Done?
Richard Mann poses as the school counselor, but in truth he's an egomaniac psychopath, murderer, thrill seeker and predator who uses the internet to recruit vulnerable children, brainwashes them and uses them as instruments of murder. Danny was the latest he convinced to kill. His MO? To convince the children to conduct a school shooting and commit a personal murder while it's happening, often of another teacher. By his own admission, he's done it twice before Danny and gloats that the murdered teachers never see it coming. He then leaves the kids to take the rap. "Pull the trigger. Down goes the precious teacher. And the kid's all yours. He didn't stand up for good, so now he's gotta be evil!"
However, Danny's sister saw Mann, so he threatened to murder both kids if either talked. "If people raised children to be more callous, my job might be more difficult."
Oh, he also manipulated the murdered teacher's father into shooting the principal by sending him a sex tape of his daughter with him to make sure the principal didn't come to help Rainie at the end, and then plans to kill those who know about him before skipping town.
It's revealed Mann's real name is Henry Hawkins, and he's developed a talent for moving around, adopting new identities. He'd manipulated at least two other school shootings.
And there we have it. Sizable body count and a really unique and nasty MO
Lighty, I'm seriously beginning to wonder if you go to sleep at night. X___X
Richard Mann.
Sal-Soo, I guess. Several (rather brutal and painful) murders to his name.
![[thumb up] [tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png)
![[thumb up] [tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png)
Mann, DEFINITELY. I was wondering how he compared to Beckett; he might be WORSE. All this just For the Evulz? What happens to him BTW?
- Is Injurin' Joe now a consensus cut?
edited 10th Jan '16 12:17:49 AM by ACW
Rainie shoots him.
Btw, there's one other Lisa Gardner villain I forgot from one of her different series: Judge Maxwell Black.
I'll make this quick because it's so self-apparent, and I'm kinda tired. Maxwell Black is a respected judge, and is thrust into a situation when his daughter, Sandra, vanishes, and Sandra's husband Jason is the prime suspect. Black wants to get his granddaughter Ree away from Jason as soon as possible, especially when it seems someone is targeting men who may've been Sandra's lovers, obviously Jason in a jealous rage after murdering his wife?
Nope.
Maxwell Black's wife was abusive to Sandra, so he killed her. Got her drunk, put her in the garage, turned the car on and stepped out, letting her suffocate in pain and terror as she watched him watch her die. Oh, except...he didn't kill her because of moral reasons. He didn't want Sandy damaged. And at that point? Sandy was old enough to serve as a replacement. He proceeded to rape and molest her for years. Sandy fled home to get away, and even had an abortion when she was 16.
Black is also the murderer of the two supposed lovers, planting a bomb to kill one and gunning the other down personally, intending to frame Jason. When this doesn't work as well as he thought, he attempts to murder Jason himself, and reveals why he did this: To get his hands on his granddaughter Ree as a replacement for Sandra. Ree is four at this point. He even threatens to shoot Ree if Jason doesn't comply with his orders (in fairness, Jason thinks this is likely a bluff as Maxwell did all of what he did to get Ree as a toy)..however, it's revealed Sandy faked her death to trap her father, and gets the drop on him. After interrogating him about her mother's death and confirming her father disposed of her mother because he could just use Sandy as a replacement, Sandy executes him.
Smaller attempted bodycount, but the raping his own daughter for years and attempted to groom his own granddaughter as a sex toy? Yeah, I feel comfy with this proposal.
edited 10th Jan '16 12:33:00 AM by Lightysnake
RIP to Angus "Tall Man" Scrimm.
And
to the Judge, with a question: So he didn't (supposedly) kill his wife because she was abusive, he killed her because he had grown tired of her and was ready to use his daughter as a replacement?
edited 10th Jan '16 2:02:21 AM by ACW

As the corrupter, Satan orchestrates nearly all of the events in the series; you could say that he manipulates events behind the scene as well. Like I mentioned before, most of the series revolves around family disputes, crime, terrorist attacks, etc. There are murders that are committed in the series, besides Satan's murders, like the above mentioned terrorist bombing that Satan uses to try to corrupt an angel. And then there was his attempts at trying to convince an entire community to kill each other in a race war.
Anyway, I wasn't proposing him, at least not at the moment; I was asking if anyone had seen the show so that we could give some answers.
Who am I kidding? I feel like an idiot for trying to discuss a show that I hadn't seen in years.
edited 9th Jan '16 5:37:39 PM by AustinDR