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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#50351: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:55:09 PM

So what do you think about Shaula so far I have 1 [tup] for her

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#50354: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:39:28 PM

Now that you that mention it, Shaula gets a [tup] from me as well. Not to mention, she casually murders a Traitor the DWMA gets their hands on and leaves a message written in said Traitor's blood. I remember when I first read those panels... Yeesh... Talk about Cerebus Syndrome.

The "lonely" aspect is, like he said, anime only. And even then, it isn't expanded upon that much anyway.

@Demon Duckof Doom: The general heinous standard for Soul Eater tends to learn toward the weaponization of Madness/Insanity, murder and crime, and the preference for chaos. Among other kinds of stock Moral Event Horizon crossing. For reference, anything Medusa Gorgon does is a pretty good indication.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50355: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:52:04 PM

[tup] to Shaula.

Why so serious?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#50356: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:54:10 PM

Solidified [tup] Shaula. Also gonna [tup] Isaac, due to the resource clause.

In regards to evaluations, I think three should be the limit for how many a character gets from one arc.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50357: Jan 8th 2016 at 9:03:17 PM

So, do we have enough votes to cut Injurin' Joe?

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#50358: Jan 8th 2016 at 9:15:04 PM

I think there's an important part to what OE said...I can't help but note that when people reject a formatting or length thing, ACW, you let it go for a bit, but bring it back up again and act entirely too quickly on things sometimes...I'm just saying not everything in this thread needs to be done to one's personal preference.

I have no issue with fanfic Medusa gorgon counting, btw. As far as Soul eater heinousness goes...it's pretty high, with some serious nastiness from some villains. Not insurmountable, and Shaula gets up to enough to handily surpass Arachne and equal Medusa. Yes for her.

For Hateful 8... Nobody counts. Everyone has a redeeming quality or three.

Bob: What is it you find enjoyable about Creepypastas? I seriously do not understand it. I went and read that story and it was wretched. It's a pointless, stupid gore fest, of the sort Eli Roth would find poorly done. why do you think he needs to be evaluated? Why do any of these Creepypastas need us to evaluate them? No on Isaac on heinousness. You've done good proposals, man, so I'm not sure why Creepypastas are something you keep coming back to.

edited 8th Jan '16 9:21:24 PM by Lightysnake

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#50359: Jan 8th 2016 at 9:21:57 PM

[up][up] I'd say so, so I guess ACW'll request his cut the same time he requests the new entries be added.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Cakeman Since: Dec, 2012
#50360: Jan 8th 2016 at 9:33:01 PM

Medusa Gorgon was responsible for changing Soul Eater into a comedic series into a horror one...you could say that she's an example of a Vile Villain, Saccharine Show.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#50362: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:01:43 PM

I'll [tup] both fanfic!Medusa and Shaula.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#50363: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:02:47 PM

So I just watched the 1982 movie A Stranger Is Watching, and was all ready to propose the villain, Artie Taggart, but upon re-watching the last few scenes, I'm pretty sure that he has a Pet the Dog moment, because his actions would make no sense if he didn't genuinely decide to give Julie back to her father (albeit for the ransom money) instead of just killing both hostages after getting paid like he had planned. Personally, I don't think that he'd given any reason beforehand to make us think that he cared enough to spare a child, but there you go. I just thought I'd mention that for anyone searching this thread to see if the movie had been discussed. Also, I'm not sure if this happens in the book.

And I had made such nice notes, too..

edited 8th Jan '16 10:06:02 PM by Camberf

IndirectActiveTransport plays capoeira from Chicago (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
plays capoeira
#50364: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:27:39 PM

Okay, so while I'm waiting for answer to the post back on 2014, I'm going forward with the other one.

Portia Perez trying to kill Allison Danger's unborn child apparently wasn't evil enough for complete monster but what about trying to kill an full grown woman? It was revealed, almost two years after the fact, that The Canadian Ninjas had been hired by Sweet Saraya to takeout Cheerleader Melissa but all Saraya wanted them to do was break one of Melissa's knees, killing her was something Perez came up with all by herself. When it was announced the two would be facing off in nCw Femme Fatales, Perez admitted that she thought she had killed Melissa, expressed frustration with the fact Melissa had "come back" and hoped she could make it stick in the future.

Does that qualify as evil enough? At least when stacked with trying to cause a still birth while the mother had a broken collar bone?

Buldogue's lawyer
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#50365: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:30:59 PM

[up] I don't think it does.

Hey, the page we're on is the same number as the current year!

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#50366: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:41:08 PM

[up] Nuts, you beat me to it! [lol]

I'll say [tup] to Shaula and Fanfic!Medusa

[tdown] to Isaac for reasons listed by Lighty.

edited 8th Jan '16 10:41:50 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#50367: Jan 8th 2016 at 10:55:24 PM

[tdown] Issac because let's be real here. Creepypastas by their nature are designed to be as gratuitous and depraved as possible, for pointless shock value. I feel the same way I feel about You Tube Poops having C Ms.

[tup] to Shaula tho.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#50368: Jan 8th 2016 at 11:09:56 PM

Personally, I wouldn't say that all Creepypastas fall under that category; if done correctly, they can be insightful, like the Russian Sleep Experiment or No End House, or they can be captivating, like Penpal. Not all Creepypastas are pointless gore. For example, the Alice Killer, from The Alice Killings, is actually the least needlessly violent antagonist to come from a creepypasta; the story actually doesn't rely too heavily on blood and gore; rather, it presents itself as a murder-mystery scary story with an actual plot.

Well, that's my take on the matter; I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I do agree that some "candidates" are only there to commit violent actions for no other reason than it being "edgy."

edited 8th Jan '16 11:20:41 PM by AustinDR

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#50369: Jan 8th 2016 at 11:55:53 PM

Eh, I'm giving Isaac a [tdown]. While The Origin Of Laughing Jack does seem to explain Jack's origin, from the effortpost I read, it came off as "In this story, an imaginary friend is trapped in a box. Meanwhile, some dude goes around doing gory things."

That's....not really much of a plot. :/ Although I will admit I haven't read the story.

edited 9th Jan '16 7:45:45 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#50370: Jan 9th 2016 at 12:49:35 AM

So that's 8 [tup] for Shaula and 0 [tdown], I believe that is enough to post a write up for her.

Soul Eater Not note : Shaula Gorgon is the younger sister of Arachne Gorgon and Medusa Gorgon, but hold no respectfor either one and in her efforts to prove she is better to the two, and bring down DWMA, is as every bit as cruel as the latter. While undercover as one of the DWMA's staff, she performs her heinous experiments on innocent civilians, which involves injecting her poison into them turning them into her slaves she calls Traitors. Once a traitor out lives their usefulness, she finds way to dispose them. This include forcing a DWMA student, under her control to commit suicide for failing to defeat Maka Albarn to murdering a captured traitor herself, all while taking pleasure. When she discovers Sid's attempting to stop her, she has him killed by luring him into a trap, then injects him with her poison before using an explosive that results in a replica of the Statue of Liberty stabbing him in the head. She also plans to unleash madness in Death City, by ordering her traitors to kill as many innocents as they can. Through her brainwashing abilities, she forces Meme, whom she took control at some point, to kill her friends Tsugumi and Anya, not before licking her face just so she could taunt them. Once Meme breaks free from her control, Shaula goes on a full rampage in an effort to kill the trio, and any other DWMA's students. Willing to commit an abundance of cruel acts just to flaunt her suppose superiority over her two older sister, and destroy DWMA, she truly stands out as a dark and vile villain in an otherwise Lighter and Softer take on the Soul Eater series.

edited 9th Jan '16 12:58:16 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#50371: Jan 9th 2016 at 12:59:52 AM

Scraggle or someone else who's beaten the game, can you answer this question about Super Mystery Dungeon?

I know Nuzleaf was possessed by a Made of Evil Eldritch Abomination like The Bittercold but was Yvetal possessed, does he preform a heel face turn, does he have redeeming qualities, is he made of evil too, or is he a potential candidate? He's a nasty piece of work from what I've seen and if he doesn't have any mitigating qualities, he's probably a contender. You said it's likely no one qualifies so Yvetal probably has redeeming qualities right?

And honestly, I feel the same way about Hux that I feel about the nazis in Germany. They were born and raised on propaganda and while they did have free choice, children are more impressionable. You can imprint ideas on them and transform them into whatever you want. So if this is canon, I'd be willing to [tdown] Hux whenever we discuss him again.

edited 9th Jan '16 1:00:25 AM by Klavice

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#50372: Jan 9th 2016 at 1:04:36 AM

[up] Yveltal was also mind-controlled by Dark Matter. After it snaps out of it, it immediately helps the player in the final battle against Dark Matter Core and holds immense regret for what it ended up doing while under mind control, so no, it's not a candidate.

edited 9th Jan '16 1:05:42 AM by Scraggle

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#50373: Jan 9th 2016 at 1:05:18 AM

So what do you guys think about my write up?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50374: Jan 9th 2016 at 1:16:58 AM

[up] I'll tweak it today (and I'll toss in another [tup] for Shaula).

MovieFan2000 Since: Jan, 2016
#50375: Jan 9th 2016 at 2:21:48 AM

Are are there any excepctions when a Made of Evil villain can be a CM ?


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