During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
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While we never really see the Gem rebellion, we see some of the results of it such as the forced fusions and the Homeworld's original plans for Earth. Her attempt at destroying the Earth with the Cluster alone arguably sends her beyond the line for a kids show.
I just saw a trailer for a movie that's been compared to the Hunger Games...though by no means it is unoriginal. I will admit that it reminds me of The Hunger Games nonetheless considering the grim setting and the female lead...though unlike The Hunger Games, the characters have guns. How about that. Also, there's aliens.
Anyways, the candidate I would like to bring to this thread is Commander Vosch, The Big Bad of the 5th Wave.
Who Is He?
As I just said a few seconds ago, he's the Big Bad. In other words, he's the leader of the Others. In other words, he's responsible for everything that has happened in the novel...and the apocalyptic setting.
What Does He Do?
When he's first introduced, he seems like a respectable military commander. He's there to help evacuate the people at who were at a quarantine camp following the pandemic known as the 3rd Wave.
The first sign of trouble comes when he says that the adults should wait until he's done loading the children in his vehicles. When the adults agree to do so, he then tells them to gather together.
At this point, our main heroine Cassie (think Katniss Everdeen only with a gun instead of a bow) realizes that something is up and decides to investigate. Sure enough, she witnesses Commander Vosch having his fellow Others murder all the adults inside the camp and shooting Cassie's father himself. In other words, he manages to make things personal for her VERY quickly.
As for the children, it turns out this is all a plan to get rid of the rest of humanity (however little left they may be) by raising their children to become Child Soldiers and do the job themselves. Those that he sent to Camp Haven (including Cassie's brother Sammy) get to meet the Drill Sergeant Nasty (with an emphasis on nasty Reznik, who for some strange reason is going to be female in the film) who is hated by many of the squads in the camp.
It then turns out that he is in fact the leader of the Others. In other words, he was the one who was responsible for the 5 waves in the series...
The five waves in question were as follows:
The first wave was taking out the human's electronics. In the process, half a million people died.
The second wave was creating massive earthquakes and tsunamis using the earth's fault lines. That makes the first wave look completely harmless. In other words, it kills three billion people.
The third wave was infecting whatever's left of humanity with a deadly virus. This one manages to kill 97 percent of Earth's survivors...and it makes its victims slowly bleed to death until they end up infecting as many others as possible.
The fourth wave is...well, basically what I mentioned earlier. The silencers as they are called find the survivors and kill them while posing as the military while capturing the children.
The fifth wave is...what I also mentioned earlier. They train children to become child soldiers that hunt down the rest of them.
Finally, he manipulates Ben (another character in the novel, of course) into becoming his loyal servant by tricking him into going out to hunt "the aliens" that destroyed his family. Of course, said aliens are actually human beings.
Excuse, Mitigating Factors, Redeeming Qualities, Heinous Standard?
Oddly enough, the Others are not Always Chaotic Evil. Many of them do not wish to destroy humanity.
But considering he's the one whose in charge of the whole thing, I'd have to say that he's a major exception.
Final Thoughts?
Well, from what I know about him a lot of people hate the guy...so I figured I'd propose him and see what you made out of it.
edited 7th Jan '16 10:53:56 PM by Cakeman
Commander Vosch, although the whole Excuse, Redeeming, Heinous section seems a bit sketchy. There was nothing in the book you spotted that might be up for debate proving he might not be a CM?
- OE, fair point (though once I hopefully finish the FF stuff, we can go back to using this).
- Overlord, I just requested duplicate Redjac be cut.
.....But you read the book, right? You're not just proposing this guy based off a Wiki article? I mean, yeah, using child soldiers as bombs is a solid
for me. But trust me when I tell you that even the slightest redeeming quality or Freudian Excuse will get someone scratched.
edited 7th Jan '16 11:36:32 PM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Hey guys its me again thanks to Clown Face I finally have a better grasp on what potholes are. So here is my third knack at the far cry entries, this time with potholes
These are the original
Far Cry 3: Hoyt Volker is the boss of the biggest slave-trading ring in the South-Pacific. He's described as the root of all the evil happening on the island, and is responsible for manipulating Vaas with drugs into becoming a madman. In his first appearance, he gleefully forces a small group of innocent civilians to run across an active minefield. The second time we see him, he burns one of his own men alive and tells the rest of his privateers to kill any island native they see on sight. Finally, during a poker game, he kills Jason's friend Sam and threatens to cut off one of Jason's fingers every time he loses a round, a threat that he makes good on. Volker may seem pleasant, but is in fact an utterly psychotic sadist without a single redeeming quality.
Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon: In this post-apocalyptic timeline, Colonel Ike Sloan was the leader of cybernetically enhanced soldiers, and the ideal hero, but upon learning that America and the Communists are making a peace agreement, he goes rogue with his soldiers. Enhancing himself with the Blood of the Blood Dragons, Sloan considered himself the strongest and best suited to be leader. He plots to use the blood to enhance nukes which he'll launch all over the worlds, resulting in a new apocalypse and then he’ll build a world where the strong rule over the weak, with him as supreme leader. When he first encounters two of his former soldiers, Sergeant Rex "Power" Colt and Lieutenant T.T. "Spider" Brown, he kills Spider and later praises Rex for killing some of his men, as he sees it as culling out his weaker soldiers.
These are the rewrites with potholes of course:
While the Far Cry series has many menacing antagonists , there are a fair few who goes beyond menacing:
Far Cry 3: Hoyt Volker, the boss of the biggest slave-trading ring in the South-Pacific, and the one responsible for turning Vaas with into his right-hand madman, with drugs. He is first introduced forcing a small group of innocent civilians to run across an active minefield. In his second introduction, he burns one of his own men alive and tells the rest of his privateers to kill any island native they see on sight. In his last appearance, he kills Jason's friend Sam in the middle of a poker game and threatens to cut off one of Jason's fingers every time he loses a round, a threat that he makes good on. A psychopathic sadist who lacks even a single redeeming quality, Volker may seem pleasant but is in fact the root of all the evil, fear, and madness happening on the islands of Rakyat.
Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon: Colonel Ike Sloan was once the leader of cybernetically enhanced soldiers, and the ideal hero, but upon learning that America and the Communists are making a peace agreement he goes rogue with his soldiers. Enhancing himself with the Blood of the Blood Dragons, Sloan considered himself the strongest and best suited to be leader. He plots to use the blood to enhance nukes which he'll launch all over the worlds, resulting in a new apocalypse and then he’ll build a world where the strong rule over the weak, with him as supreme leader. When he first encounters two of his former soldiers, Sergeant Rex "Power" Colt and Lieutenant T.T. "Spider" Brown, he kills Spider and later praises Rex for killing some of his men, as he sees it as culling out his weaker soldiers.
Is it better?
edited 8th Jan '16 1:24:31 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff![]()
Better. I'll work on those either today if I have time, or next weekend.
Meanwhile, the other edits
will be submitted Sunday or so.
Beast and I have both voted
on Smugglers Redemption Malfato. No one else has voted. Does anyone mind if he is cut?
- The Joker serves as the Overarching Villain of the series. The Arch-Enemy of Batman, Joker regularly commits crimes solely to torture his nemesis throughout the series. When first establishing himself in Gotham, Joker hijacked Black Mask's organization, and used his influence to torture and murder innocents, along with bombing multiple buildings across the city. In one notable instance, Joker staged a breakout at Arkham Asylum, ensuring the slaughter of as many people as possible. Left dying of a TITAN overdose in the wake of this incident, Joker forces Batman to find a cure for his condition by poisoning more than two thousand people with his infected blood; he also executes Batman's Love Interest, Talia Al Ghul, right in front of him. Caring nothing for his subordinates, The Joker regularly abuses his "girlfriend," Harley Quinn, and tortures and murders his henchmen, along with threatening their family members, for fun. Even after his death, flashbacks further show his wicked deeds, such as crippling Barbara Gordon and physically and psychologically torturing Jason Todd for months, then sending Batman videotapes of said torture; this torture resulted in Jason becoming the Arkham Knight. Tie-in material only adds to his list of crimes, with trying to blow up Gotham City and rigging fireworks with Joker toxin that kills hundreds (the latter seen in the digital comic, Arkham City: End Game) being just a few of his extra depravities. A narcissistic sadist with a pathological need for attention, the Joker is determined to make Gotham forever remember him by writing his name in the city with blood.
- Far Cry series:
- Far Cry 3: Hoyt Volker is the boss of the biggest slave-trading ring in the South-Pacific, as well as the one responsible for using drugs to turn Vaas Montenegro with into his right-hand madman. He is first introduced forcing a small group of innocent civilians to run across an active minefield. In his second introduction, he burns one of his own men alive and tells the rest of his privateers to kill any island native they see on sight. In his last appearance, he kills Jason's friend Sam in the middle of a poker game and threatens to cut off one of Jason Brody's fingers every time he loses a round, a threat that he makes good on. A psychopathic sadist who lacks even a single redeeming quality, Volker may seem pleasant but is in fact the root of all the evil, fear, and madness happening on the islands of Rakyat.
- Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon: Colonel Ike Sloan, the Big Bad of this post-apocalyptic, stand-alone expansion, was once the leader of cybernetically enhanced soldiers, and the ideal hero, but upon learning that America and the Communists are making a peace agreement, he goes rogue with his soldiers. Enhancing himself with the blood of the Blood Dragons, Sloan considered himself the strongest and best suited to be leader. He plots to use the blood to enhance nukes which he'll launch all over the worlds, resulting in a new apocalypse and then he’ll build a world where the strong rule over the weak, with him as supreme leader. When he first encounters two of his former soldiers, Sergeant Rex "Power" Colt and Lieutenant T.T. "Spider" Brown, he kills Spider and later praises Rex for killing some of his men, as he sees it as culling the ranks of his weaker soldiers.
- Toy Story 3: Lots-o'-Huggin' Bear is the ruler of Sunnyside Daycare, and oppresses the other toys through brute force and violence. Originally the favorite toy of a young girl named Daisy, Lotso was mistakenly lost and replaced, leading him to believe that all toys were worthless and unloved. Taking over Sunnyside, Lotso subjects the toys in the Caterpillar Room to horrid mistreatment from the younger children. When Andy's toys request that they be relocated to the Butterfly Room, Lotso resets Buzz Lightyear and has him beat down his friends, showing a cold satisfaction while doing so. When Woody frees the toys and they attempt to escape, Lotso has Chatter Telephone beaten in order to get him to explain Woody's escape plan before ordering the toys disposed of in the dumpster. When his minions turn on him and he is taken to the dump, along with Andy's toys, he abandons them to burn to death in the incinerator, ignoring that they had previously saved his life. While he has a tragic backstory, Woody himself calls him out on how weak it is, stating that Lotso had abandoned her, not the other way around. Sociopathic and misanthropic, Lotso may have appeared innocent, but was depraved to his core.
- The Girl Next Door 2007: In this film based on the novel (itself loosely based on a true story), Aunt Rutherine "Ruth" Chandler takes child abuse to horrifying new levels. Ruth believes that all women are whores, and as such should be treated like animals. When her nieces Susan and Meg move in with her after the deaths of their parents, she subjects Meg to an escalating series of atrocities that include tying her to a post and ordering her sons and some of the neighborhood children to rape her, mutilating her with a blowtorch, and forcibly removing her clitoris, forcing David and Susan to watch as she does. She also punishes Susan, a crippled girl, for her sister's perceived disobedience; she even goes as far as to inappropriately touch her as a means of keeping Meg in line. Manipulative and sadistic, Ruth is an utter nightmare of a mother.
- Ultron: Shortly after his activation, he gained a malignant intelligence, came to the conclusion that morality was irrelevant and humanity was flawed, and sought to destroy humankind and replace it with androids like himself. When any of his creations, like The Vision, reject him due to his monstrosity, Ultron wastes no time in trying to destroy them, and, when his surrogate son, Victor Mancha, tries to turn on him, Ultron mind controls him into killing his friends, then murders his mother in front of him. Slaughtering the nation of Slorenia in Ultron Unlimited, Ultron uses the thousands of corpses to make a model of his own face large enough to see from space. Later taking over the Phalanx in Annihilation: Conquest, Ultron conquers the Kree Empire, murdering and torturing any who resist him, then plans to use his armada to destroy the Earth, just to spite his "father", Hank Pym. Returning in Rage of Ultron, Ultron conquers and assimilates the planet of Titan, uses it to lead an assualt on Earth, then tries to release billions of spores throughout the universe, which will transform all they infect into machines under Ultron's control. In numerous alternate timelines, such as in Age of Ultron, Ultron succeeds in taking over the world and killing off the human race, with his plans only being thwarted with the use of time travel. A fully self-aware being, Ultron uses many excuses to try to justify his actions, but all of Ultron's claims are consistently proven false by his needlessly sadistic and egomaniacal personality. The strongest creation of Hank Pym, the Arch-Enemy of The Avengers, and the slayer of thousands of innocents, Ultron is one of the most wicked villains the Marvel Universe has to offer.
- Pokémon Hunter J is, as her name implies. a remorseless poacher of Pokémon, who hunts rare Pokemon to sell on the black market, with little compunction or restraint in stealing them from other trainers. To do this, J petrifies the Pokémon and leaves it as a statue she keeps in storage, and is perfectly willing to petrify other humans and leave them petrified. Not only does she mistreat any and all Pokemon and people that work for her, but her callous disregard for humans and Pokémon alike is shown when J drops a section of her airship containing several of her own men for the purpose of ridding herself of ten-year-old protagonist Ash in her first appearance, as well as several Pokémon, and also later during attempts to directly kill him and his friends several times, including having her Salamence set fire to a densely-populated forest for this purpose. Brutal, sadistic, sociopathic, and unfettered J ultimately ends up complicit in a scheme which will result in the ultimate destruction of the universe, and ends as one of the only villains with no humane traits in the 800+ episodes of the anime.
- Vrak is the youngest son of Emperor Mavro, and the most dangerous and hated enemy of the Megaforce Rangers. Originally The Dragon to Admiral Malkor, Vrak arrived and was the Evil Genius who came up with plans to take over the Earth. His plans involved sending a virus that turned humans into their Loogie foot soldiers and using a monster of the day's music abilities to potentially kill as many humans on the planet at once. He frequently manipulated his allies like Creepox and the Mutants, eventually leading to their ends. When Malkor is defeated and Vrak is killed in the destruction of their spaceship, his robot servant Metal Alice finds him and brings him back as a cyborg, eventually taking a blow meant to kill him. Vrak "thanks" her by telling her he never cared for her before leaving her to die. He resurfaced in the season 2 two-parter "Vrak Is Back", after his older brother, Prince Vekar, is defeated, cruelly mocking him for being too weak and actually thanking the Rangers for killing him so that he could claim the throne. Having kidnapped Robo Knight and Orion, he drained the life force of the latter, forcibly reprogramming the former to attack his former friends while constructing drills that burrow into the Earth's core. He tricks the Rangers into destroying his two remaining monsters, who become new drills to complete his plan quicker. Lacking empathy for both allies and enemies, and aiming to destroy the Earth, Vrak is one of the franchise's cruelest aliens to invade the Earth.
- Ser Gregor Clegane, alias "The Mountain that Rides", is an eight-foot-tall Black Knight in service to House Lannister. A brutal sadist and one of the most feared men in Westeros, Clegane is kept in a constant state of rage due to migraine headaches. Rumoured to have murdered his sister, father, and two wives, Clegane's confirmed crimes are even more heinous. At twelve, he burned off half of his younger brother Sandor's face when the latter played with one of Gregor's discarded toys. At seventeen, he dashed Prince Aegon's head against a wall, then raped and murdered his mother, Princess Elia, with the baby's brains still on his hands. Introduced at a tournament in A Game of Thrones, Gregor murders one of his opponents, then tries to kill another and his own brother after being unseated in a joust. Unleashed on the Riverlands, Clegane and his men rape and murder anyone who falls into their hands. At one point in A Clash of Kings, for ten days, Gregor picks one person each day from a group of villagers for "The Tickler" to question until they die from his torture. After one villager volunteers for questioning to save her daughter, Clegane has the daughter tortured the next day to make sure the mother didn't leave anything out. He also smashes a girl's face in for speaking when he wanted silence, then turns her over to his men to be gang-raped for days. In A Storm of Swords, Clegane slaughters the population of Harrenhal before cutting strips of flesh from Vargo Hoat and feeding them to him, torturing Hoat for days before letting him die. In the same book, during a duel with Oberyn Martell, Princess Elia's brother, who asserts that "you raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children", Clegane's only concern is that Oberyn got the order of events wrong, correcting him before brutally crushing Oberyn's skull:
- The Legend of Korra: Unalaq is Korra's Evil Uncle, the leader of the Northern Water Tribe, and one of the primary villains of Book 2. Years ago, Unalaq, jealous of his older brother, Tonraq, had him exiled from his home tribe after framing him as responsible for the destruction the Dark Spirits inflicted on their tribe. Later trying to have Avatar Korra, a child at the time, kidnapped, Unalaq abandoned his partners to their fates when the plan failed. When the Dark Spirits return, Unalaq takes control of the Southern Water Tribe from Tonraq and has anyone who may oppose him disposed of, triggering a war between the water tribes. Later attempting to open a spirit portal, Unalaq tries to leave his son to die when he is injured, and, realizing only the Avatar can open the portals, threatens to destroy the soul of Jinora, a little girl, to force Korra to assist him, then tries to condemn Jinora to the Fog of Lost Souls and to murder Korra even after she opened the portal. Revealing his true colors, Unalaq assaults the Southern Water Tribe; beats down Tonraq, sparing his life solely so he can see Unalaq win; then frees Vaatu, the spirit of darkness and chaos, with whom he has been partnered with the entire season, fuses with him into a Dark Avatar, and tears the spirit of light and order, Raava, out of Korra and attempts to obliterate her. Unalaq then attacks Republic City and announces his plans to rule over humanity after destroying all world order. A sociopath with a god complex, Unalaq stands out as the most monstrous villain in this sequel series to Avatar.
- Cubix: Robots for Everyone: Kilobot is the Dragon-in-Chief to Dr. K, the Arch-Enemy of Cubix, and the most vicious character in the series. A Power Parasite, Kilobot regularly drains innocent robots' life-energy throughout the series, plunging them into death-like comas in the process. When acting on orders from Dr. K, Kilobot goes out of his way to cause more destruction than remotely necessary, often times targeting children and innocents for fun. Kilobot regularly defies his master's orders, trying to let a weather machine destroy an entire city, stealing a cloning device from a robotics corporation, framing a hero for it, then trying to blow up said corporation when discovered, and murdering Dr. K's best friend, all on his own accord. Betraying Dr. K, Kilobot executes Maximix, takes control of an army of Zombots, then plans to use them to turn every robot into his slave then Take Over the World, and, when his plans are thwarted, Kilobot makes one last attempt on Cubix's life by crushing his power core in his bare hands. Though appearing in a lighthearted series, Kilobot was a depraved monster whose appearances darkened the series considerably.
edited 9th Jan '16 4:00:52 AM by ACW
@Cakeman: So, I was reading the 5th Wave Wiki, and I saw something about Vosch returning Sissy's locket to her brother, Ben Parish; not only that, but he also had a photo that showed his wife and child, citing them as his "silver chain." Was this supposed to be mitigating factors for him, or did these scenes not mean much?
edited 8th Jan '16 6:55:32 AM by AustinDR
To add context to the locket; according to the Wiki, sometime around the Second and Third Wave, when people started to go around, killing, stealing, and raping, three men entered into Ben's house, and they killed his parents, and his baby sister, Sissy. The only thing that he had to remember her by was the locket. This is especially poignant, because he had promised his father that he would protect Sissy and his mother; he believed that he failed Sissy. Did Vosch give Ben the locket when he literally had nothing to gain for it, or was it to further entrap Parish?
I would think that Vosch was just using the locket to manipulate Ben for his own end, but what about the photo that he showed him earlier? It seems like you're proposing Vosch, because nearly everyone who read the book despises him rather than him meeting the criteria.
edited 8th Jan '16 7:22:55 AM by AustinDR
