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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#50276: Jan 7th 2016 at 10:26:45 PM

[up][up][up][up]While we never really see the Gem rebellion, we see some of the results of it such as the forced fusions and the Homeworld's original plans for Earth. Her attempt at destroying the Earth with the Cluster alone arguably sends her beyond the line for a kids show.

Cakeman Since: Dec, 2012
#50277: Jan 7th 2016 at 10:52:59 PM

I just saw a trailer for a movie that's been compared to the Hunger Games...though by no means it is unoriginal. I will admit that it reminds me of The Hunger Games nonetheless considering the grim setting and the female lead...though unlike The Hunger Games, the characters have guns. How about that. Also, there's aliens.

Anyways, the candidate I would like to bring to this thread is Commander Vosch, The Big Bad of the 5th Wave.

Who Is He?

As I just said a few seconds ago, he's the Big Bad. In other words, he's the leader of the Others. In other words, he's responsible for everything that has happened in the novel...and the apocalyptic setting.

What Does He Do?

When he's first introduced, he seems like a respectable military commander. He's there to help evacuate the people at who were at a quarantine camp following the pandemic known as the 3rd Wave.

The first sign of trouble comes when he says that the adults should wait until he's done loading the children in his vehicles. When the adults agree to do so, he then tells them to gather together.

At this point, our main heroine Cassie (think Katniss Everdeen only with a gun instead of a bow) realizes that something is up and decides to investigate. Sure enough, she witnesses Commander Vosch having his fellow Others murder all the adults inside the camp and shooting Cassie's father himself. In other words, he manages to make things personal for her VERY quickly.

As for the children, it turns out this is all a plan to get rid of the rest of humanity (however little left they may be) by raising their children to become Child Soldiers and do the job themselves. Those that he sent to Camp Haven (including Cassie's brother Sammy) get to meet the Drill Sergeant Nasty (with an emphasis on nasty Reznik, who for some strange reason is going to be female in the film) who is hated by many of the squads in the camp.

It then turns out that he is in fact the leader of the Others. In other words, he was the one who was responsible for the 5 waves in the series...

The five waves in question were as follows:

The first wave was taking out the human's electronics. In the process, half a million people died.

The second wave was creating massive earthquakes and tsunamis using the earth's fault lines. That makes the first wave look completely harmless. In other words, it kills three billion people.

The third wave was infecting whatever's left of humanity with a deadly virus. This one manages to kill 97 percent of Earth's survivors...and it makes its victims slowly bleed to death until they end up infecting as many others as possible.

The fourth wave is...well, basically what I mentioned earlier. The silencers as they are called find the survivors and kill them while posing as the military while capturing the children.

The fifth wave is...what I also mentioned earlier. They train children to become child soldiers that hunt down the rest of them.

Finally, he manipulates Ben (another character in the novel, of course) into becoming his loyal servant by tricking him into going out to hunt "the aliens" that destroyed his family. Of course, said aliens are actually human beings.

Excuse, Mitigating Factors, Redeeming Qualities, Heinous Standard?

Oddly enough, the Others are not Always Chaotic Evil. Many of them do not wish to destroy humanity.

But considering he's the one whose in charge of the whole thing, I'd have to say that he's a major exception.

Final Thoughts?

Well, from what I know about him a lot of people hate the guy...so I figured I'd propose him and see what you made out of it.

edited 7th Jan '16 10:53:56 PM by Cakeman

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#50278: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:04:46 PM

[up] I'm confused. Are you proposing book!Vosch after reading the whole thing or movie!Vosch based on the trailer?

Cakeman Since: Dec, 2012
#50279: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:06:03 PM

I'm proposing the book version of him. The movie version isn't even out yet. Heh heh.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#50280: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:16:26 PM

[tup] Commander Vosch, although the whole Excuse, Redeeming, Heinous section seems a bit sketchy. There was nothing in the book you spotted that might be up for debate proving he might not be a CM?

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50281: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:18:41 PM

  • OE, fair point (though once I hopefully finish the FF stuff, we can go back to using this).
  • Overlord, I just requested duplicate Redjac be cut.

Cakeman Since: Dec, 2012
#50282: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:21:32 PM

Well, I read his wiki article...he seemed pretty heinous...also, he used the child soldiers as bombs...

edited 7th Jan '16 11:21:58 PM by Cakeman

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#50283: Jan 7th 2016 at 11:35:04 PM

[up] .....But you read the book, right? You're not just proposing this guy based off a Wiki article? I mean, yeah, using child soldiers as bombs is a solid [tup] for me. But trust me when I tell you that even the slightest redeeming quality or Freudian Excuse will get someone scratched.

edited 7th Jan '16 11:36:32 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#50284: Jan 8th 2016 at 12:47:12 AM

Hey guys its me again thanks to Clown Face I finally have a better grasp on what potholes are. So here is my third knack at the far cry entries, this time with potholes

These are the original

Far Cry 3: Hoyt Volker is the boss of the biggest slave-trading ring in the South-Pacific. He's described as the root of all the evil happening on the island, and is responsible for manipulating Vaas with drugs into becoming a madman. In his first appearance, he gleefully forces a small group of innocent civilians to run across an active minefield. The second time we see him, he burns one of his own men alive and tells the rest of his privateers to kill any island native they see on sight. Finally, during a poker game, he kills Jason's friend Sam and threatens to cut off one of Jason's fingers every time he loses a round, a threat that he makes good on. Volker may seem pleasant, but is in fact an utterly psychotic sadist without a single redeeming quality.

Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon: In this post-apocalyptic timeline, Colonel Ike Sloan was the leader of cybernetically enhanced soldiers, and the ideal hero, but upon learning that America and the Communists are making a peace agreement, he goes rogue with his soldiers. Enhancing himself with the Blood of the Blood Dragons, Sloan considered himself the strongest and best suited to be leader. He plots to use the blood to enhance nukes which he'll launch all over the worlds, resulting in a new apocalypse and then he’ll build a world where the strong rule over the weak, with him as supreme leader. When he first encounters two of his former soldiers, Sergeant Rex "Power" Colt and Lieutenant T.T. "Spider" Brown, he kills Spider and later praises Rex for killing some of his men, as he sees it as culling out his weaker soldiers.

These are the rewrites with potholes of course:

While the Far Cry series has many menacing antagonists , there are a fair few who goes beyond menacing:

Far Cry 3: Hoyt Volker, the boss of the biggest slave-trading ring in the South-Pacific, and the one responsible for turning Vaas with into his right-hand madman, with drugs. He is first introduced forcing a small group of innocent civilians to run across an active minefield. In his second introduction, he burns one of his own men alive and tells the rest of his privateers to kill any island native they see on sight. In his last appearance, he kills Jason's friend Sam in the middle of a poker game and threatens to cut off one of Jason's fingers every time he loses a round, a threat that he makes good on. A psychopathic sadist who lacks even a single redeeming quality, Volker may seem pleasant but is in fact the root of all the evil, fear, and madness happening on the islands of Rakyat.

Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon: Colonel Ike Sloan was once the leader of cybernetically enhanced soldiers, and the ideal hero, but upon learning that America and the Communists are making a peace agreement he goes rogue with his soldiers. Enhancing himself with the Blood of the Blood Dragons, Sloan considered himself the strongest and best suited to be leader. He plots to use the blood to enhance nukes which he'll launch all over the worlds, resulting in a new apocalypse and then he’ll build a world where the strong rule over the weak, with him as supreme leader. When he first encounters two of his former soldiers, Sergeant Rex "Power" Colt and Lieutenant T.T. "Spider" Brown, he kills Spider and later praises Rex for killing some of his men, as he sees it as culling out his weaker soldiers.

Is it better?

edited 8th Jan '16 1:24:31 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#50285: Jan 8th 2016 at 1:21:50 AM

[tup] to Commander Vosch and Malik (if memory serves me right that guy claimed a lot of affection for others, and never showed any that wasn't designed to be manipulative).

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50286: Jan 8th 2016 at 2:01:19 AM

[up][up] Better. I'll work on those either today if I have time, or next weekend.
Meanwhile, the other edits will be submitted Sunday or so.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50287: Jan 8th 2016 at 4:18:50 AM

[tup] to Vosch, though I hesitate since he didn't read the book. Or, at least, I think he did't.

Tentative yes to Malik.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50288: Jan 8th 2016 at 5:15:53 AM

Interestingly, not that it needs a trimming, but amusingly Arkham!Scarecrow's entry is now longer than Arkham!Joker's.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#50289: Jan 8th 2016 at 5:17:17 AM

Beast and I have both voted [tdown] on Smugglers Redemption Malfato. No one else has voted. Does anyone mind if he is cut?

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50290: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:23:35 AM

—> "Her name was Elia of Dorne. First, I killed her screaming whelp. Then I raped her. Then I smashed her fucking head in. Like this."
  • The Legend of Korra: Unalaq is Korra's Evil Uncle, the leader of the Northern Water Tribe, and one of the primary villains of Book 2. Years ago, Unalaq, jealous of his older brother, Tonraq, had him exiled from his home tribe after framing him as responsible for the destruction the Dark Spirits inflicted on their tribe. Later trying to have Avatar Korra, a child at the time, kidnapped, Unalaq abandoned his partners to their fates when the plan failed. When the Dark Spirits return, Unalaq takes control of the Southern Water Tribe from Tonraq and has anyone who may oppose him disposed of, triggering a war between the water tribes. Later attempting to open a spirit portal, Unalaq tries to leave his son to die when he is injured, and, realizing only the Avatar can open the portals, threatens to destroy the soul of Jinora, a little girl, to force Korra to assist him, then tries to condemn Jinora to the Fog of Lost Souls and to murder Korra even after she opened the portal. Revealing his true colors, Unalaq assaults the Southern Water Tribe; beats down Tonraq, sparing his life solely so he can see Unalaq win; then frees Vaatu, the spirit of darkness and chaos, with whom he has been partnered with the entire season, fuses with him into a Dark Avatar, and tears the spirit of light and order, Raava, out of Korra and attempts to obliterate her. Unalaq then attacks Republic City and announces his plans to rule over humanity after destroying all world order. A sociopath with a god complex, Unalaq stands out as the most monstrous villain in this sequel series to Avatar.
  • Cubix: Robots for Everyone: Kilobot is the Dragon-in-Chief to Dr. K, the Arch-Enemy of Cubix, and the most vicious character in the series. A Power Parasite, Kilobot regularly drains innocent robots' life-energy throughout the series, plunging them into death-like comas in the process. When acting on orders from Dr. K, Kilobot goes out of his way to cause more destruction than remotely necessary, often times targeting children and innocents for fun. Kilobot regularly defies his master's orders, trying to let a weather machine destroy an entire city, stealing a cloning device from a robotics corporation, framing a hero for it, then trying to blow up said corporation when discovered, and murdering Dr. K's best friend, all on his own accord. Betraying Dr. K, Kilobot executes Maximix, takes control of an army of Zombots, then plans to use them to turn every robot into his slave then Take Over the World, and, when his plans are thwarted, Kilobot makes one last attempt on Cubix's life by crushing his power core in his bare hands. Though appearing in a lighthearted series, Kilobot was a depraved monster whose appearances darkened the series considerably.

edited 9th Jan '16 4:00:52 AM by ACW

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#50291: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:30:49 AM

@Cakeman: So, I was reading the 5th Wave Wiki, and I saw something about Vosch returning Sissy's locket to her brother, Ben Parish; not only that, but he also had a photo that showed his wife and child, citing them as his "silver chain." Was this supposed to be mitigating factors for him, or did these scenes not mean much?

edited 8th Jan '16 6:55:32 AM by AustinDR

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50292: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:43:11 AM

[up][up]ACW, there's a typo in Hunter J's write-up. Right after her name is written, you should've put a comma instead of a period.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#50293: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:44:02 AM

[up][up] And that is why one should read the work before proposing an example.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50294: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:47:16 AM

[up]If I want to propose a film example, but need to watch the film itself, I usually only skip to the scenes with the person I'm proposing.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#50295: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:53:15 AM

I'm also not a fan of that since it can make one skip relevant or background information

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#50296: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:55:31 AM

If you want to propose a candidate, view the work they're from in whole. The reason I've been so slow in proposing some of my intended candidates is because I'm too distracted to focus on some of the longer works and I don't want to make a proposal based on a brief buzz-by.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50297: Jan 8th 2016 at 6:56:39 AM

Well, to be fair, those are the exceptions. I usually watch the full movie.

Why so serious?
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#50298: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:09:17 AM

To add context to the locket; according to the Wiki, sometime around the Second and Third Wave, when people started to go around, killing, stealing, and raping, three men entered into Ben's house, and they killed his parents, and his baby sister, Sissy. The only thing that he had to remember her by was the locket. This is especially poignant, because he had promised his father that he would protect Sissy and his mother; he believed that he failed Sissy. Did Vosch give Ben the locket when he literally had nothing to gain for it, or was it to further entrap Parish?

I would think that Vosch was just using the locket to manipulate Ben for his own end, but what about the photo that he showed him earlier? It seems like you're proposing Vosch, because nearly everyone who read the book despises him rather than him meeting the criteria.

edited 8th Jan '16 7:22:55 AM by AustinDR

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#50299: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:12:06 AM

Okay, switching to a no on Vosch.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#50300: Jan 8th 2016 at 7:20:58 AM

Clown-Face, thanks. J's entry's now fixed.


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