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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Monsund Since: Jan, 2001
#49876: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:54:56 PM

I'd to do a small change this entry in the fallout section.

  • [Pyromaniac Cook-Cook] is an Ax Crazy Fiend. The Fiends are [Always Chaotic Evil always chaotic psychos] who torture people for fun, but Cook-Cook is so bad that he is barely tolerated even by the other Fiends.

to

  • [Pyromaniac Cook-Cook] is an Ax Crazy Fiend. The Fiends are [Rape, Pillage, and Burn a violent bunch of psychos] who torture people for fun, but Cook-Cook is so bad that he is barely tolerated even by the other Fiends.

The reasoning for the change is the Fiends are an organization of Drug Addicted Bandits, not their own race, and thus do not fit Always Chaotic Evil which is for Evil species/races rather then organizations of humans.

edited 1st Jan '16 6:03:16 PM by Monsund

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49877: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:55:56 PM

@ Mediawatcher: Mind telling us who they are?

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49878: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:58:38 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] Well, the [tup] votes are 7 and the [tdown] votes are 6. I think that means that it qualifies. Here's my entry for it:

  • Skellington's Revenge: The Black Hiver is the only You Tube Poop example, but it is still played completely seriously. When Jack Skellington summons this demon to help him take over Christmas, it gives him the power to trap those who oppose him in paintings. It then enacts it's plan by trapping SpongeBob, Patrick, RED Team, the Eds, and Fluttershy in its dimension just because they were celebrating Christmas. It then proceeds to kill them all in horrific ways (burning the Edd, Eddy, and the Spy before eating them; throwing a rock at Patrick, causing him to fall to his death) and turns the bodies of Scout, Soldier, and Fluttershy against everyone else. This culmilates when Jack undergoes a Heel–Face Turn, pissing off the Hiver, who proceeds to kill SpongeBob and try to kill Jack. As it is doing this, it admits that its goal is far beyond what Jack wanted, and that it was using Jack to achieve it.

edited 1st Jan '16 5:59:15 PM by SatoshiBakura

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49879: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:58:39 PM

Richard trager is the crazed Doctor who cuts off your fingers and has been shown to have done that to many others for whatever reason

Jeremy Blaire is the supervisor who exposed your files in the beginning and one who's trying to kill you in whistleblower, he's also the guy who's trying to keep you from leaving the asylum and exposing the secrets.

Also how does Albert contellio push it? I don't get what makes him so vile.

edited 1st Jan '16 6:14:03 PM by Mediawatcher

Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#49880: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:07:30 PM

[[League of Legends]] has Mordekaiser. The Shadow and Fortune storyline details his backstory as a brutal tyrant that ruled over eastern Valoran long before Demacia or Noxus came into being. His trademark ability involves enslaving the souls of his enemies before reanimating them and forcing them to slaughter their allies against their will. Cited as being both hated and feared, his enemies finally rallied to put an end to his reign. Even in death, Mordekaiser laughed and swore vengeance on his killers. After being raised by sorcerers, he repaid them by forcefully turning them into liches bound to serve him until the end of time. For the next decade, he tracked down and killed every single person that stood against him, before going on a centuries long rampage of darkness across Valoran, killing purely for sport. After being seemingly killed for good, his first act after being reborn once again centuries later in the Shadow Isles is to enslave an army of undead, intending to resume his reign of terror, seemingly targeting Noxus first. In another story centered on him, he strangles a Demacian knight to death before enslaving his soul, forcing him to slaughter the very garrison of soldiers he was sworn to protect. His one [[Pet the Dog]] moment regarding Sona is non-canon, and was written long before his new lore was published. Unlike Thresh, who was driven mad by ancient artifacts, and Karthus, who is a [[Well-Intentioned Extremist]] at best, Mordekaiser is in death as he was in life, a tyrant who wants to watch the world burn.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#49882: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:17:38 PM

@49886

What does your rant about redemption have to do with this thread again?

[tup] to Ranmaru

edited 1st Jan '16 6:18:01 PM by xie323

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49883: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:19:58 PM

Nothing, but I saw a post talking about Kylo ren earlier and I wanted to reply to it, also can you say the name of the user instead please?

edited 1st Jan '16 6:20:38 PM by Mediawatcher

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#49884: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:25:56 PM

I agree that the Black Hiver ought to go up. We have examples like Malachite or Mechakara, and he's a lot more like those characters than the grimdark parody villains of other such Youtube videos.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49885: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:27:46 PM

My problem with Black Hiver is all of his deeds are just out of context clips of other shows from the sound of it.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49886: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:46:29 PM

Edited the Hivers write up:

[up] Actually, the scenes with the Hiver are entirely animated by the video's creator. The entire second half of the video is set in the Hivers dimension, and contains original animation. The dimension, the Hiver, his minions, they are all self animated. So no, it's not just scenes taken out of context. It's actually rather impressive to see.

edited 1st Jan '16 6:58:41 PM by bobg

jjj
Aker-Sama Both Writer And Fighter Since: Jun, 2015
Both Writer And Fighter
#49887: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:47:00 PM

Who is he?

Mordekaiser, the Iron Revenant, was, in life, a brutal warlord who ruled Eastern Valoran with an iron fist, slaughtering all who opposed him. In death, he's a sadistic revenant of his former self, leading an army of enslaved undead with the intent to resume his campaign of terror.

What does he do?

The Shadow and Fortune storyline details his backstory as a brutal tyrant that ruled over eastern Valoran long before Demacia or Noxus came into being. His trademark ability involves enslaving the souls of his enemies before reanimating them and forcing them to slaughter their allies against their will. Cited as being both hated and feared, his enemies finally rallied to put an end to his reign. Even in death, Mordekaiser laughed and swore vengeance on his killers. After being raised by sorcerers, he repaid them by forcefully turning them into liches bound to serve him until the end of time. For the next decade, he tracked down and killed every single person that stood against him, before going on a centuries long rampage of darkness across Valoran, killing purely for sport. After being seemingly killed for good, his first act after being reborn once again centuries later in the Shadow Isles is to enslave an army of undead, intending to resume his reign of terror, seemingly targeting Noxus first. In another story centered on him, he strangles a Demacian knight to death before enslaving his soul, forcing him to slaughter the very garrison of soldiers he was sworn to protect.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

YES. Even Thresh is evil simply because he was driven unwillingly mad by the artifacts he watched over. Mordekaiser, unlike, almost every other champion in the game, has no Freudian Excuse or good intentions in sight, he just wants to watch the world burn because it's not his to rule.

Any redeeming traits?

He's cited by Word of God to be very protective of Sona, the most delicate member of the non-canon champion group, Pentakill. Non-canon. As in, not really happening. If we're going by what's actually happened throughout his history in Valoran, nope.

Verdict? [tup]

edited 1st Jan '16 6:47:52 PM by Aker-Sama

"Roses are red, violets are blue, if I had a brick I'd throw it at you."
ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#49888: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:47:44 PM

If we see the Hiver using his power and then it shows the effects via the clips, then that counts as us seeing the Hiver doing these horrifying things, at least by this format.

Side note, who thinks that when Hux's actor gets older, he could pull off playing Ghiren Zabi in a live action Gundam movie? tongue

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#49889: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:49:25 PM

[tup] to Hux

[tdown] to Ren

Abstain on Snoke for now

[tdown] to Phasma

OH [tup]! [tup] WAY UP ON BB 8!

edited 1st Jan '16 6:49:49 PM by futuremoviewriter

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#49891: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:22:15 PM

[tup] Mordekaiser.

[tdown] everyone from TFA until the trilogy is complete.

Except BB-8. As well all know, he's really Jar Jar Binks' spirit trapped inside a droid, secretly plotting everything under everyone's noses.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#49892: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:22:36 PM

But, yeah, I agree that they went full Hitler on Hux; when I was watching the film, I was just expecting someone to shout "Heil Hitler" while watching.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#49893: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:26:18 PM

No lie, during Hux's New Age Speech, I legit whispered to the guy next to me, "Nazis". He got a good kick out of that.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#49894: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:33:18 PM

Incidentally, when watching the movie and when reflecting I'm conflicted about that scene.

It's so over the top that it's pretty namy (it makes the Nazi imagery of the original films look subtle by comparison) but on the other hand, up til then, Hux mostly seems like somewhere between a Mauve Shirt generic Empire guy and a Younger and Hipper Tarkin, but that moment- both the rally and the destruction he caries out, shows that he's a dangerous maniac.

edited 1st Jan '16 7:34:07 PM by Hodor2

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49895: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:34:59 PM

[tup] Hux.

Question: I know Tarkin has a lot of crimes under his belt, but in just one movie, Hux did more evil then Tarkin did throughout all of his appearances (canon and legends) combined. Does this mean that Tarkin no longer meets the standard?

jjj
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#49897: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:38:27 PM

All this just makes me hope he gets a first name at some point.tongue

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49898: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:39:08 PM

No, why would it? Tarkin is like one of the most ridiculously evil guys in the franchise with what he has and the original Star Wars monster. He's not less evil, he just didn't have a solar system buster.

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#49899: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:39:19 PM

Quick question about Hux not being able to qualify because his arc's not over yet.

There are plenty of CMs that have been approved by this thread that are still alive and in on-going works. These villains are allowed because they are not involved in any on-going story arcs.

My question is the story arc in question regarding Hux TFA or the sequel trilogy as a whole?

I'm asking for clarification and am not asking that we change the thread rules.

edited 1st Jan '16 7:42:55 PM by lrrose

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49900: Jan 1st 2016 at 7:42:22 PM

I'd say the sequel trilogy for now, as Hux's obviously in an going thing now. We haven't seen all we need of him yet and really don't know all that much of him. If he dies in Episode VIII we can judge him then. If we see way more of him, we'll certainly reconsider. If we have to wait until Episode IX, we will.


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