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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#49851: Jan 1st 2016 at 11:57:00 AM

Not sure I understand how calling Snoke makes the act less bad. What does it matter that he asked permission first? The iniative still came from Hux.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49852: Jan 1st 2016 at 11:58:58 AM

[up] Sure, but there's still an issue with how bad Hux can be independently.

I mentioned it earlier: Ryoan the monk guides the three survivors according to a prophecy of the three mystic weapons destroying Nobunaga. Ranmaru is the author of the prophecy, the creator of the weapons and responsible for everything Nobunaga does (Nobunaga might count but he's such an Unwitting Pawn who doesn't know his own true nature and is dancing to Ranmaru's tune the whole time)...Ranmaru needed the negative emotion and deaths to open the underworld.

edited 1st Jan '16 11:59:43 AM by Lightysnake

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#49854: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:10:12 PM

@49857: I have to ask, how is this not dark and exploitive? Because when I see characters from kids shows being horribly murdered, things like Edd and Eddy being burned alive, and having Patchy the friggin Pirate cannibalize Patrick Star, I can't help but think this is cheap, trashy darkness for the sake of darkness. It all sounds like stuff done for shock value other than any actual need for darkness in the story. Anyway, I'm voting no on Black Hiver.

edited 1st Jan '16 12:11:37 PM by OccasionalExister

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49855: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:10:46 PM

[tup] Ranmaru, but geeze, all the machinations, needing the hatred of a survivor...seems like an AWFULLY convoluted way to bring forth the demons.

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49856: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:12:33 PM

[up][up] Well if you want some light, everyone comes back to life in the end after the Hiver is killed.

It's not darkness for the sake of darkness. It's darkness for the sake of plot. There is a legitimate plot that doesn't just boil down to "giant monster killing everyone". You can watch it on YouTube and see for yourself.

edited 1st Jan '16 12:17:54 PM by SatoshiBakura

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#49857: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:41:22 PM

Still [tdown] to all TFA villains. Hux is the one who would go up as a CM if we knew how his arc was to conclude, but the truth is that his time's not yet up so, unlike Tarkin, he can't be definitively voted up based on this installment on it's own. So in conclusion, Hux and Snoke ought to remain on the "wait and see" list while Ren and Phasma are on the "definitely not" list.

After consideration, I'd give Black Hiver a [tup] 'cause if he were an actual canon character rather than an OC, he'd be Nibiru Entity levels of twisted and horrifying in his goals and deeds.

edited 1st Jan '16 12:43:26 PM by ANewMan

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#49859: Jan 1st 2016 at 1:28:40 PM

[tup] to Ranmaru

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#49861: Jan 1st 2016 at 3:27:38 PM

I'll give [tdown] to everyone from TFA for the reasons already given.

SmartGirl333 New account is voidify Since: Nov, 2014
New account is voidify
#49862: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:10:21 PM

On the webcomics subpage of Complete Monster, although this is not a character request, I would like to request an edit. The entire Homestuck example needs to be spoiler tagged (except the work name of course) because even Caliborn's name is a spoiler.

Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49863: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:16:07 PM

[tup]to Ranmaru, [tdown] to everyone from TFA including Hux because none of their arcs are over yet.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49864: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:34:41 PM

Another thing about Ranmaru? Guy has some incredible villain lines. When Ayame manages to get up and challenge him, his response is "You don't know when you're dead!" In such a perfect tone.

I'll start on with some more effortposts soon and remove my backlog there

SmartGirl333 New account is voidify Since: Nov, 2014
New account is voidify
#49865: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:37:37 PM

I get a feeling nobody noticed my suggestion to spoiler that spoileriffic example.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#49866: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:42:17 PM

So, I just saw Force Awakens. Agree [tdown] to everyone as of yet.

I think Ren will likely be redeemed in some manner but perhaps not, and if not, I suppose he could potentially be up for consideration (depending on how hard he embraces the Dark Side).

Agree with others that Hux could very well count in a future film- we just need to see more of him. It's quite striking how Hux seems to have this jealousy/mistrust of Ren and both Hux and Snoke (correctly) suspect that Ren isn't/wasn't fully committed to the Dark Side. It definitely gives both Hux and Snoke and Eviler than Thou edge.

And yeah, Hux goes full Hitler (you never go full Hitler).

edited 1st Jan '16 4:43:08 PM by Hodor2

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49867: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:45:26 PM

How big a spoiler is Caliborn?

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#49868: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:48:51 PM

[tup] to Ranmaru, Tienbo and Abdullah.

[tdown] to Black Hiver.

I also think its a good idea to hold off on all TFA villains for now.

SmartGirl333 New account is voidify Since: Nov, 2014
New account is voidify
#49869: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:55:49 PM

[up][up]We still have plot twists which updated YEARS before his existence was revealed spoiler tagged. Suffice to say that it's a huge spoiler, and pretty much every other word in the example is an even bigger spoiler.

doineedaname from Eastern US Since: Nov, 2010
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#49871: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:02:16 PM

@Smart Girl: This particular trope is very spoilery. If you want, you can submit a spoilered entry here, but I question the necessity, at least on the main page.

SmartGirl333 New account is voidify Since: Nov, 2014
New account is voidify
#49872: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:03:59 PM

Oh, OK then

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49873: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:41:13 PM

I still don't get why there are so many [tdown] on the Hiver. We have had plenty of villains from comedy things before. Remember Applelox? He was a Knight of Cerebus from something that was spun off from a raunchy comedy webshow. I seriously don't think we have to worry about people proposing tons of You Tube poop villains just for letting one in. Again, he is an original character from a poop with a coherent plot who is played straight. That is three things most poops don't have: Ocs. coherent plots, and villains who are played seriously. The happy ending prevents this from being grimdark trash, and we even have a page for the work.

jjj
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49874: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:53:52 PM

I didn't like darth vaders redemption so chances are I won't like Kylo Ren's redemption either, it's completly unwarranted and in my opinion it really doesn't feel genuine, it feels out of nowhere, and come one there so called "tragedies" really don't hold up at all, they are both unsympathetic and downright despicable characters.

Also what about Richard trader and Jeremy Blaire from outlast can't they count?

SmartGirl333 New account is voidify Since: Nov, 2014
New account is voidify
#49875: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:54:26 PM

I'm gonna unfollow this thread because the Homestuck discussion is over. Okay?


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