TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49752: Dec 31st 2015 at 10:44:18 PM

Oh, so we're going to be talking about Star Wars soon? Yeah, expect me to be missing for a while until I see the film.

Why so serious?
JayRomeo Since: Sep, 2015
#49753: Dec 31st 2015 at 10:49:14 PM

Does the Call of Duty franchise have enough C Ms to warrant its own page? Five is the minimum right?

edited 31st Dec '15 10:49:50 PM by JayRomeo

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#49754: Dec 31st 2015 at 10:53:25 PM

So, last year I also talked about terrible people doing terrible things, so I think I'll clarify something: I distinguish between being a human and being a person. It's probably due to my Philosophy studies. Anyway, anyone who qualifies as a CM must also qualify for personhood, that is, having sufficient intelligence, agency, all that crap.

So, yes, a smart enough dinosaur can be a person in my book. This does lead to the Unfortunate Implications that there are humans out there who do not qualify, but I'm evil enough to stand by this standard I have.

You know, it'd be very hard for a YT Poop character to qualify, but I'm open to being convinced.

[up]Yes, it is worth discussing.

edited 31st Dec '15 10:53:57 PM by PolarPhantom

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49755: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:12:55 AM

  • OE, Wiki link removed.
  • Jay Romeo, we could, but considering the fact the COD games aren't really connected, I'd say it's not necessary.
  • HT, now I'm curious. Who is it?
  • As for TFR, I say that while Hux is probably the closest (Snoke falls into GDV territory for the moment), since it seems like all 4 survived, we should probably take a wait and see approach.
  • Man, it's only Thursday, and already I have 6 for next week (FNAF killer, Heydrich, Elf Quest quartet)! [lol]
  • Okay, I'm Jewish, and consider myself fairly knowledgeable about The Holocaust...was Heydrich that bad?
  • Oh, and Happy New Year! Here's to another year of evil characters doing evil things! evil grin

edited 1st Jan '16 4:54:07 AM by ACW

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49757: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:38:11 AM

Here is the first effortpost of the new year! The film is called The Tai Chi Master starring Jet Li and Michelle Yeoh, telling the tale of two friends raised in a temple together: the kind Junbao (Or Jun Bo) and hot-tempered Tienbo (Chin Bo).

Who Is He?

Tienbo starts as a hot-tempered youth who gets the pair thrown out of the temple after nearly killing another young man in a fight. The two end up involved in broader events, namely in a rebellion against the military and the brutal local governor.

However...Tienbo finds himself fascinated by the power of the governor and seeing him harass and harm the citizens, his thought is "whoah, I wanna be that powerful!" Tienbo decides to join the army...

What's He Done?

Now, Junbao and his friends manage to defeat the governor's soldiers, except for one survivor who rushes to warn the army of the rebellion's hiding spot. Tienbo intercepts the soldier and upon learning the information, kills him to keep the rebellion's HQ a secret ....only to lie to the rebels, rat them out to the governor, and have them slaughtered to nearly a man. Innocents and soldiers alike. Tienbo captures the main female leaders of the rebellion, Miss Li and Siu Lin. He attempts to force himself on Miss Li, and when the governor (himself a eunuch) chastises Tienbo for desiring Tienbo, Tienbo kills Miss Li with a blow to the back of the neck when she tries fighting back, before baiting Junbao into a trap using Siu Lin. He attempts to draw Junbao into the army, decrying his victims as having deserved to die. Junbao survives and saves Siu Lin, but his mind briefly snaps at his old friend's betrayal.

Now, Tienbo has been promoted more in the army and...is not a good superior. At all. He puts his own army through training from hell, using them as battle fodder and even causing their deaths through his brutal training. Junbao returns, having completed training in Tai Chi and he and Siu Lin take the governor hostage. During the fight, Tienbo murders the governor to seize full control of the army...and also uses several soldiers as human shields/missiles against Junbao. At this point, the soldiers are kinda having second thoughts.

When defeated, Tienbo begs Junbao for leniency, begging him to remember their friendship and promising he'll repent and it'll be just as it was when they were boys...

Only for him to try to blind Junbao and attempt to impale him with spears, laughing insanely all the while. He orders his men to slaughter the heroes when it fails...and at this point, they decide "fuck this guy" and openly cheer Junbao on. Tienbo launches a final attack, forcing Junbao to counter him and throw him into the air, where he lands on the spears of his own soldiers.

Heinous Standard?

Setsit by facilitating the largest body count in the film. The main villain except the governor who's...well, he's nasty, but lacks the personal touch.

Redeeming Qualities and Freudian Excuse?

It becomes increasingly clear Tienbo is simply obsessed with power and just wants more of it. He seems a Jerk with a Heart of Gold at first, but he abandons all redeeming qualities before long. He does seem to genuinely love Junbao like a brother at first, but he abandons this and after Junbao refuses to join him, he seems to lose all affection for him, trying to kill him while laughing and tries to have him killed. When he begs for Junbao to forgive him and promises they'll be friends again, it's just a ruse.

So yep, keeper.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49759: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:50:06 AM

OH, what the hell, have another. From the film White Sun of the Desert: Black Abdullah.

The film concerns a Soviet soldier fighting in the desert during the multiple civil wars (namely modern day Turkmenistan). Our hero Fyodor. He meets and befriends a soldier named Sayid who is seeking revenge on the man who buried him and left him to die in the sand. They soon come across a number of women who were abandoned to their deaths by their husband; the Basmachi warlord Black Abdullah.

Who Is He? What's He done?

A Basmachi warlord who took the path of a bandit, and knew Sayid as a child. Abdullah, seeking to escape the soldiers, left his wives to die. (And he has a LOT of wives, like 9-10). Now, they soon find Abdullah again, who goes to see his wives, and annoyed they didn't kill themselves and had the audacity to be rescued, attempts to murder them all before he is captured in the process. When locked up, Abdullah convinces his younger wife to release him, then murders her and a young soldier on duty before escaping. when he and his men seek a path to the sea, their path takes them through some ruins where Abdullah also murders a museum curator. Our heroes end up hiding in an old oil tanker and when he finds out, Abdullah plans to cook them alive by burning it.

In the ensuing battle, one of the good guys is killed by the exploding tanker before Fyodor manges to kill the gang and finally Abdullah himself.

Redeeming qualities? Nope. Freudian Excuse? Nada. Total bastard? Aye.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#49760: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:51:16 AM

[tup] Tienbo and Abdullah

edited 1st Jan '16 1:18:26 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#49761: Jan 1st 2016 at 12:54:53 AM

[tup] Tienbo and Black Abdullah

And a Happy New Year!

edited 1st Jan '16 12:55:08 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49762: Jan 1st 2016 at 1:03:59 AM

[tup] Abdullah, I guess (the attempting to kill his wives when they don't commit suicide is what does it for me).
Lighty, are any of ones on the to-do list still a go? Some of them have been there for, like, forever tongue

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49763: Jan 1st 2016 at 1:05:04 AM

Eh, take Lupin off. I'll get to the others. Sooner or later!

[up] Yeah, he tries to do that like two or three times. Abdullah's kind of a dick.

edited 1st Jan '16 1:05:34 AM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#49765: Jan 1st 2016 at 1:35:04 AM

I am very drunk right now, but when I wake up, I already wrote out effortposts and saved them, so they'll be good to go. TFA... WILL BE DISCUSSED.

I didn't even bother with an effortpost on Phasma, she does jack shit and doesn't count. She's in the movie to sell shiny chrome Stormtrooper toys.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49766: Jan 1st 2016 at 2:32:38 AM

The ONLY thing I could see for Phasma...was it her or Kylo who ordered the death of everyone in the village.

[nja] Looks like it was Kylo. Yeah, Phasma doesn't count (for the time being anyway).

edited 1st Jan '16 2:43:01 AM by ACW

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#49767: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:12:03 AM

[tup] to Tienbo and Black Abdullah

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49768: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:23:15 AM

Before I make my effort post on the Black Hiver, I will share my views on are The Force Awakens villains.

  • Snoke: Not completely disqualified, but we barely know anything about him, and he's an Orcus on His Throne. Not this movie, but potential exists.
  • Kylo Ren: Struggling to kill Han is an automatic disqualifier. The moral issues he suffered there don't happen in real monsters.
  • Hux: Probably the only one that counts, considering that he is in charge of the Starkiller as it seems as well as his Nazi-esque feel.
  • Phasma: Definitely didn't do enough to count, but considering that, like Snoke, she didn't do anything redeeming, she is still up there.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#49769: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:26:40 AM

Honestly, I'm wary on discussing any of the characters but Hux seeing as the series isn't finished yet. This being Star Wars, the possibility for redemption always exists. But, honestly, let's let Largo post their effortposts before we discuss in any great detail.

Also, happy 2016, everyone.

edited 1st Jan '16 4:38:52 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49770: Jan 1st 2016 at 4:48:51 AM

Okay, I took care of the whole animation thing. As for Hunter Cain and D'Arby, I don't care either way anymore.
[up][up] Yeah, I pretty much agree. As it stands now, Hux would be the only candidate (though MAYBE a case could be made for Kylo, as those moral issues could be him completely crossing over; Snoke DEFINITELY has potential).

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49771: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:16:12 AM

Alright, here comes the Hiver. The full name of the work is The Nightmare Before Christmas Who: Skellington's Revenge, and you can watch it here. It's a crossover between The Nightmare Before Christmas and SpongeBob SquarePants, including characters from Team Fortress Two, Ed, Edd n Eddy, and My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic. It probably would have been better to post this on Christmas, but it didn't come to my mind then.

Who is he?

The Black Hiver is a demon. Desperate to conquer Chirstmas for one year after the Halloween special was cancelled, Jack Skellington summoned this demon to help him. Though he seems to be sub-servant to Jack, as Santa warns, he can't be trusted. Also, he's modeled after Bugs Bunny.

What does he do?

After Jack summons him, he gives Jack the power to trap Santa and the residents of Halloween Town in paintings. Then he sucks Sponge Bob, Patrick, RED Team, the Eds, and Fluttershy into his dimension. Once there, he proceeds to kill them all in horrific ways and then steal their souls. Here's what goes down in detail: First, he uses some mind power to directly kill two Soldier and Scout and turns their bodies against everyone, killing Medic. When Patrick, Ed, and Fluttershy, he unleashes Patchy the Pirate to eat them. When Fluttershy tries to fly them away, he throws a rock at them, killing Patrick (with his remains getting eaten by Patchy), and then uses his mind power to kill Fluttershy and turn her against Ed. He then proceeds to kill Edd, Eddy, and Spy by burning them alive and then eating them. When Sponge Bob, Ed, and Heavy fight back, the Hiver traps them in midair, letting his Nutcracker Dragon shoot a rock at them, causing Ed and Heavy to fall to their deaths. When Sponge Bob easily convinces Jack to make a Heel–Face Turn, the Hiver kills Sponge Bob and tries to kill Jack as well, revealing in the process that his ultimate goal is far beyond Jack's mere goal of taking over Christmas for one year, claiming that "the past must be paid for", and that he is using Jack.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

Considering that this is a You Tube Poop, , there isn't a continuity that this thing can be in. Jack is the only other villain not controlled by him, but even he 1: only wanted to take over Christmas for one year, and 2: didn't kill anyone. Also, the Hiver is a serious character compared with other You Tube Poop villains. If he wasn't serious, I wouldn't be posting him here. In other words, this is a character that does not belong in a You Tube Poop'.

Any redeeming traits?

None that I know of. Maybe being a demon could bring in some moral issues, but there is nothing saying that he is Made of Evil (I know that the characters page says that, but it's a Zero Context Example. There is nothing explaining that he is Made of Evil).

Verdict?

[tup]

Edit: We have an article for it, but for some reason, the link to the article isn't working (and I am linking to it correctly).

edited 1st Jan '16 5:34:13 AM by SatoshiBakura

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49772: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:31:17 AM

Probably an overly-long link. Try this. I'll give a [tup], even though the characters page has him Made of Evil.


Okay, let's just take care of this now:
  • Back to Brooklyn: Even though Paul "The Wall" Saetta is a vicious Brooklyn crime boss, as well as a serial pedophile and murderer, and Cop Killer, his dying words are asking his brother, Bob, whom he has just fought, to look after their mother; he seems to be sincere about this. The following duo, however, have no such redeeming qualities:
    • Churchill, Paul's "pet psychopath," is a dapper and eloquent gentleman who nevertheless seems to have no feeling towards anyone. When he tracks Bob to an old store Bob used to frequent, he tortures the elderly owner with a straight razor. After carving him to bits, Churchill has the place set on fire, informing the old man he can carry his bedridden wife out to save her after Churchill has left him in no shape to even walk. Churchill later captures Bob's best friend Vinnie and tortures him, only cutting it short with a bullet to the head when he realizes Vinnie will never betray Bob. It is also revealed Churchill is the one who set a deal with Russian mobsters to always provide Paul with immigrant boys.
    • Penny Saetta, Bob's wife, is revealed in the final issue to match her brother-in-law for evil when she reveals to Bob she participated in and did the filming for Paul's activities. Having only married Bob to be a gangster's wife and a self-described “dangerous bitch,” she happily joined in with Paul on his snuff films. When Bob begs her to tell him she didn't involve their son, Penny comments she absolutely made the attempt (Paul just wasn’t interested) before mocking Bob for his morals.

edited 1st Jan '16 7:32:27 AM by ACW

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#49773: Jan 1st 2016 at 5:32:52 AM

[up] It's a Zero Context Example anyway. The Poop never actually says that he's Made of Evil.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#49774: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:27:45 AM

You don't ever take a break, do you, Lighty? X___X

[tup] Tienbo and Abdullah.

Also I actually watched that YouTube Poop. ...I'm inclined to say [tup] Black Hiver. For those of you who don't wanna watch it or loathes YT Ps, yes. The first five or nine minutes or so are just random YTP comedy and such. It isn't until after Black Hiver comes in and sucks everyone into another dimension that the plot becomes serious. It's still kinda wacky (a frozen Fluttershy has chainsaws for arms? O__o), but surprisingly serious for a YTP. So yeah, It Gets Better.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#49775: Jan 1st 2016 at 6:29:23 AM

For the Black Hiver, I'm extremely sketchy on the premise, whether or not he "belongs in a Youtube Poop" or not. I'm going to treat this as a sort of zero-grade fan fiction and abstain permanently.


Total posts: 326,048
Top