TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49702: Dec 31st 2015 at 12:38:57 PM

[up][up] Charlotte and her friends were teens at that point though, except for Lamar.

edited 31st Dec '15 12:46:15 PM by bobg

jjj
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#49703: Dec 31st 2015 at 12:50:58 PM

This is looking pretty unanimous for Heydrich, so here's a write-up.

  • The Man in the High Castle: In the live-action adaptation, Oberstgruppenfuehrer Reinhard Heydrich is the second-in-command of the SS, the paramilitary organ in charge of enforcing Nazi Germany's ideology of 'racial purity'. He organized the total genocide of the Jews within Europe and Nazi-occupied America and participated in the enslavement of the entire African continent, boasting of having personally hunted down "tribal subhumanoids". Heydrich's faction is opposed to Hitler's policy of détente with the Empire of Japan, wanting to exterminate the Japanese so the Nazis can have the entire world for themselves. He orchestrates a public assassination of the visiting Japanese Crown Prince in an attempt to provoke the Empire into declaring war. When remorseful Nazi spy Rudolph Wegener passes on nuclear technology to his Japanese contacts to preserve peace, Heydrich flies to New York City to retrieve Wegener. He makes it clear that the only reason he hasn't already had Wegener tortured to death for high treason is because he needs him for his access to the Fuehrer, threatening to have Wegener's family murdered if he doesn't comply. Heydrich wants to assassinate Hitler so he can take over the Reich and destroy the Japanese Home Islands, mocking loyalty as a weakness that greater men lack. When Obergruppenfuehrer John Smith discovers Heydrich's scheme, he invites Smith to a hunting party so he can have him quietly killed. Feared even by his fellow Nazis as the Reich's foremost hatchet man and expert in mass murder, Heydrich enjoys every part of what he does and is known as "The Man with the Iron Heart", a name he admits to wearing with pride.

edited 31st Dec '15 4:32:28 PM by Morgenthaler

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49704: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:09:32 PM

Also, I suggested before about renaming Western Animation to simply Animation.

Why so serious?
hamza678 Red Like Santa from Christmas Beacon. Since: Apr, 2013
Red Like Santa
#49705: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:11:09 PM

[up]

That would lead to confusion with Anime.

Now known as Cyber Controller
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49706: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:14:50 PM

I think people can tell the difference between the two.

Why so serious?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#49707: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:22:25 PM

Oh holy Pele, please no more pointless rearrangements of the Monster/ subpages.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#49708: Dec 31st 2015 at 1:51:01 PM

Can I suggest putting any examples from Eastern Animation on the "Other Media" page? At least until there are enough examples to justify it getting a page of it's own.

edited 31st Dec '15 1:56:08 PM by DeCarta

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#49709: Dec 31st 2015 at 2:11:17 PM

I support merely changing Western Animation to Animation. Animation and Anime are two different things.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#49710: Dec 31st 2015 at 2:37:04 PM

I'm against renaming an entire sub-page in this case. Just put it in Other Media.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49711: Dec 31st 2015 at 2:39:09 PM

[up][up] Actually, that may be the way to go. And just maybe leave a note on Western Animation that "Other non-Anime works can be found here" or something like that.

edited 31st Dec '15 2:43:19 PM by ACW

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49712: Dec 31st 2015 at 2:54:24 PM

You know, if the killer appears in the movie and ends up getting approved, that will make the killer one of the few characters to have more than three write ups/different qualifying versions.

Anyway, which do YOU guys think is the worst?

Cooper:

  • Murdered 5 kids for missing with his robots when he could have called the police, explained the situation to his boss, and asked for a little more time.

Peter:

  • killed at lest 5 children.
  • Sealed at least 5 souls inside the animatronics to improve business.
  • Framed a janitor for three counts of murder to cover his tracks.
  • Sealed a man inside the restaurant to be killed by the animatronics to cover his tracks.
  • Planned to kill his boss after they had an argument.
  • Mocked his victims for their deaths.

  • Afton:

  • killed six kids, one of whom was the son of the man that helped him start his business, just as a way of dealing with stress.
  • Tries to murder another kid along with six teenagers, one of whom is the daughter of the man that helped him start his business.
  • Though unintentional, his actions lead to Henry committing suicide, at least five of the kids he murdered (it's not clear if Henrys son was placed n an animatronic or not) being unable to pass on, and numerous nightguards being killed by the haunted animatronics. While he did not intend for any of that to happen, he is well aware of it and does not feel any regret at all, if anything, he is happy that the animatronics are now haunted since they ensure that the new group will die, if he does not get them, they will.
  • Places the kid in a springlock suit, before gleefully telling him that if he makes one wrong move, he will be slowly and very painfully crushed to death, then be Barred from the Afterlife, then leaves the kid all lone in the room with that knowledge with nothing to do but stand there until he returns.
  • Murders an officer.
  • Tries to kill Charlie.

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#49714: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:08:13 PM

I'd still say Cooper. Killing children to get money is just wrong, especially when he could've called the police to apprehend the children. But, of course, that's my opinion.

edited 31st Dec '15 3:15:22 PM by AustinDR

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#49715: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:18:10 PM

@49704: While the Wolfram entry's good overall, could we please not put links to Wikipedia pages in entries? It's really unnecessary.

@49705: Good Elfquest write-ups.

@49715: Good Heydrich write-up. Belated yes vote for him, not that it seems he needs it.

Also, I'd say there's no good reason to rename the Western Animation page.

edited 31st Dec '15 3:20:03 PM by OccasionalExister

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#49716: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:22:12 PM

You may recall yesterday that I noticed there's been a lot of games this year with CM villains and I was planning to capping off 2015 by posting a list of most evil video game villains of 2015. I finished the list this morning, and already posted it on this video game group I'm in on Facebook. I also said that I would be putting the list on this thread as well. So here's the slightly altered version of the list - top eight most evil gaming villains of 2015.

Number eight: Lord Hastings (The Order: 1886) - The Order was a pretty lackluster game in my and a lot of others opinion. But despite its lukewarm reception, this is a game that could use a sequel to improve it and explore the lore, and this is a character and plot thread that needs to be tied up if we get a sequel. Lord Hastings is the head of the United India Company and one of the benefactors of the Order itself, which at the time of the game put its interests into protecting the rich of London from the werewolves attacks. We later learn a lot about Hasting's and the game seems to be building him as this big Palpatine esque character, by revealing he is behind the werewolf attacks, is Jack the Ripper and the main target of the Rebels the games protagonist Galahad allies himself with. It also turns out that he is a vampire named Jacob Van Neck (funny with a name like that I thought he'd be a leprechaun), and he's sending vampire armies to countries around the world, particularly America and India. With a character like that you kind of hope he'd be this big final boss at the end of the game, right ? Good for you, he disappears before the climax, having us fight the secondary villain as part of a sequel hook. I can't tell if Ready at Dawn is brilliant or stupid with its marketing like that.

Number seven: Mark Jefferson (Life is Strange) - I didn't put him higher on the list is because I didn't want to seem bias, but fans of Life is Strange named him one of the most hated villains in gaming and needless to say he earned it. When we see Jefferson, he seems like a pretty cool teacher, young, hip, his students admire him for his fame and he befriended a lot of his students, especially the female ones (Yeah, and Prince Hans seemed like Prince fucking Charming). Jefferson is a total creep and a human predator with an innocence fetish. He is a serial killer, torturer and borderline rapist, who manipulates his mentally unstable rich student Nathan Prescott into drugging and kidnaping girls for him so he can make art from their suffering. He is behind the disappearance and death of Rachel Amber, and when Kate vaguely remembers her experience in Jefferson's dark room, he tactfully tries to goad her into killing herself and fakes remorse for it - for the record insincere remorse is worse than having none at all. If you saved Kate, Jefferson will even mention that he might give her another go when she's out of the hospital. He kills nearly everyone who gets to close to him, even Nathan and the only one of his victims the player can't save is Rachel. When the Dark Room is discovered we see Jefferson has binders listed with his previous victims and intended victims. What's more disturbing is that Jefferson has been in the photography business for years, and the suffering of innocent girls is his specialty, and he became famous for it. The cherry on top is that if you look at the binders of his intended victims you might notice the name Lynn - Lynn is the name of Kate's ten year old sister.

Number six: The Crusader (Hatred) - His name is not important, what is important is what he did. Now you may have heard of this game, an online shooting game in which a misanthrope who sets out on a genocide crusade and kill many innocent people as possible. The game Hatred for a lot of controversy for its depiction of mass shootings. The Crusader is motived by his hatred for humanity and his desire to die violently, so he sets out to kill as many people as possible in his home town, leaving mass death and destruction in his wake, culminating in him setting off a nuclear explosion while laughing like a madman as he is finally shot to death. This game is almost hard to take seriously for how over the top and edgy it tries to be, like the love child of Frank Miller and Tim Burton was adopted by KORN music. Throughout this game, he shows no motive, no reason, virtually no characterization beyond hating and killing people. He's just a stone cold remorseless walking talking genocide machine. Here's the thing; He's the player character and the mass slaughter of innocent people is the POINT of the game. As a "protagonist" he makes GTA protagonists more moral in comparison. This means as the player, either we lose the game or he wins.

Number five: Scarecrow (Batman: Arkham Knight) - I am proud to say that the Arkham series has a villain that matches up to the Joker. Jonathan Crane is a former psychologist turned sadistic criminal obsessed with fear and determined to break the minds of Batman and all of Gotham. Scarecrow was introduced as an insane Arkham inmate helping the Joker, by trying to drive Batman insane. After an unfortunate encounter with Killer Croc, Scarecrow finally returns with a vengeance (and more menacing exterior) in Arkham Knight, commanding an alliance of super-villains in the wake of the Jokers death. Scarecrow sets off his fear toxin to the whole of Gotham City leading to multiple deaths and doses of thousands of under his fear toxin, all in his bid to force Gotham to see Batman as a cowards. His feats include creating a bomb to spread the fear toxin across the Eastern Seaboard, creating a "nation under fear", has Barbara Gordon kidnapped and forcing Batman to believe she killed herself, using a super weapon, Cloudburst, to drive the people of Gotham mad with fear, blackmails Commissioner Gordon into shooting Batman before trying to kill Barbara in front of him, taking control of the Arkham Knight's militia to attack the GCPD headquarters and in the climax, forces Gordon to unmask Batman on live TV, who he plans to let go so he can watch as Gotham is torn apart and everyone he loves is hunted down and killed.

Number four: Sebastino Di Ravello (Just Cause 3) - Rico Rodriguez's newest arch enemy, and more personal one (Di Ravello's coup killed Rodriguez's parents). A brutal dictator who keeps Rodriguez's home country in a civil war, and plans for world domination, and can be defined by three things - Sociopathy: Di Ravello cares nothing for his followers or his people, forcing one of his men to kill themselves with complete indifference and orders the massacre of a civilian town to spite the rebellion against him (in the same scene no less), sees his people as means to his ends, using forced labour to mine Bavaranium, an explosive and magnetic element, to create super weapons, which he tests by launching on civilian towns and beats one of his men to death in a childish tantrum when foiled. Narcissism; Di Ravello only cares for three things, himself, HIS empire and HIS reign, when finally defeated he shows no remorse for all he's done, but still laments the end of his reign and this is the only time we ever see him sad, in a moment of self pity simply because he lost. Pyromania: Throughout the game, Di Ravello is shown to have a slight obsession with fire, often staring into a pyre he has light, and using Bavaranium to create explosive weapons, and also implies that he wants to take over the world to satisfy his pyromania sweet tooth, stating he wants the Bavaranium to scorch the earth. He even takes the final fight into a volcano. If the player doesn't shoot him in the end, he is all to giddy that his legacy "ended in flames" before diving into a pit of lava.

Number three: Deimos (Call of Duty: Black Ops III - Nightmare Mode) - My opinion of BO 3 is pretty lackluster (namely because I was disappointed by Mason storyline not continuing and loose to no connection to the previous games), but while its still in the shadow of its predecessors, it's still a fairly good game. If you played it, you may or may not be familiar with Deimos, that's because he is not in the main campaign, but Nightmare Mode. Nightmare Mode is a playable alternate campaign set in an alternate universe. It's not a new story but rather a different version of the games canon story, where instead of fighting terrorists and a computer virus, you are fighting a zombie army and an evil Eldritch Abomnination, Deimos (it's like zombie AU fanfiction brought to life). In Nightmare Mode, Deimos more or less replaces the role Corvus, the aforementioned computer virus, in the story, but has a different personality and motives and is a different character all together. Deimos is the demigod of dread and terror and wears the title proud. He sets loose a zombie apocalypse, possess a team of soldiers trained to fight zombies, kills the scientists who summoned him, commits multiple acts of terrorism in between, killing a large percentage of the human race and plans to literally bring about Hell on Earth. And why ? Because he wants to kill his sister Dolos. I present to you, Unicron 2.0, right down to the multiversal aspect. Even though this character probably won't be on Co D villain hall of fame for being part of an alternate campaign, in my opinion he out does Vladimir freakin Makarov.

Number two: Eredin Bréacc Glas (The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt) - Well this isn't an elf you'll see in Santa's workshop. Almost every fantasy story has a dark lord character, Lord of the Rings has Sauron, Game of Thrones has the Nights King, and Witcher has Eredin. The ulitmate antagonist of the Witcher series, Glas is the King of the Wild Hunt, an elite cavalry brigade from the world of the Aen Elle, the Alder Folk, with Eredin Bréacc Glas as its ruthless and ambitious leader. He would travel via secret paths through the cold emptiness between his world from ours to capture victims and take them back to his homeland as slaves. The current object of his Hunt was Cirilla, whose power he wanted to harness for his own uses. Throughout the series, Glas led the Wild Hunt across many worlds, killing, torturing, enslaving men women and children, left, right and centre. A feat that continues throughout the third game until the final battle where he taunts the protagonist Geralt about how Cirilla will be just another torture victim when he's done with her. With the ocean of blood he waded through, you must ask yourself, who could top him ? Well...

Number one: Satan (Saints Row: Gat Out of Hell) - Saints Row, GTA's more insane and morally bankrupt little brother. This is a series where virtually everyone is a mass murderer or something in that regard, where before Satan was introduced, it took an alien destroying the Earth to make someone stand out as a bad guy. But the Devil's reputation proceeds him in being evil. Now the Saints Row series got a lot of flack for being more and more over the top as releases went on, but to Gat Out of Hells credit, they portray the devil surprisingly well in being pure evil, even with Saints Row's satire and his voice actor Travis Willingham being deliciously hammy while voicing him (his voice acting for Satan has this perfect blend of over the top bad guy and charismatic and impressive character that I've only seen in Adagio Dazzel). As depicted in Gat Out of Hell, Satan seems content with ruling Hell, where killing isn't enough but you suffer horrifically for all eternity but plans to once again lead a war on Heaven with Hells army and is looking for recruits, something he's been doing for millennia. Satan abducts the Saints Row Protagonist to Hell, so Johnny Gat's mission is to go to Hell to save his friend. It also turns out Satan is a very abusive father to Hells princess Jezebel, planning to force her to marry the Saints Row protagonist, hitting her when she steps out line, and threatens to break her neck. When it's pointed out he threatened his own daughter, he simply replies "I'll say something kind at her funeral." Throughout Hell, the player can collect audio recordings of Satan gleefully deceiving the history of Hell and the horrific tortures that are inflicted on his prisoners and followers alike. I'd say it's fair to give the Devil his due and name him the most evil video game villain of 2015, not by being the devil, but by managing to be the most evil character in the Saints Row franchise. That's pretty impressive.

edited 31st Dec '15 3:23:25 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#49717: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:23:09 PM

[up] what about Maxwell Roth from Assassins Creed Syndicate?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#49718: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:24:07 PM

Personally, I view Cooper as the least heinous of the three (though that's not saying much) since he had the lowest bodycount and never became aware of the fact that he had barred the kids from the afterlife. I do see your point about the reason he did the killings though. Personally, I believe that makes him a very strong case of Stupid Evil, after all, he was somehow able to make those things in one night, so I don't think it would have taken him too long to replace the limbs. If he had contacted his boss and the police and gone about it the right way, he would have come out on top. Instead, he became a mass child murderer and got himself executed. For such a skilled builder, that was very stupid of him.

jjj
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49720: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:30:43 PM

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. We voted Roth up a while ago.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49722: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:35:34 PM

Well, I have some effortposts to kick the new year off soon at any rate.

Happy advance NY, all!

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#49723: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:40:01 PM

I also got a list of effortposts planned for 2015, of course that's just my wait and see list, so we're gonna be waiting a while. I had a few re-evaluation plans but I could never think of new arguments.

edited 31st Dec '15 3:40:23 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Tbone511 Since: Dec, 2014
#49724: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:45:49 PM

I give a resounding [tup] to Heydrich. For a possible addition to the heinous standard, the wife of Obergruppenführer Smith is married to a man who tortures and summarily executes resistance fighters but she is frightened of Heydrich. That has to count for something. And the worst part of it all, this is a fictional setting but as far as I can tell it wasn't a fictional interpretation of Heydrich himself, this person really existed and was really that evil.

edited 31st Dec '15 3:47:57 PM by Tbone511

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#49725: Dec 31st 2015 at 3:56:55 PM

[up] I'm a massive history buff, and yeah, Heydrich was that bad in real life.


Total posts: 326,048
Top