During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Before the story starts he has organized the total genocide of the Jews within Europe and Nazi-occupied America, the depopulation of Eastern Europe, and the enslavement of the entire African continent—"
Welp. I know what my vote is.
Heydrich.
Also
Afton.
edited 31st Dec '15 7:05:15 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.For me, I'd say Cooper, because his motivation for killing the five children was to get paid for completing the animatronics on time. He could've reported the five children to the police for vandalism, but instead, he got desperate, and used their arms and legs to complete the animatronics. He even tried to get himself a lighter sentence by using the For Science! excuse.
Peter would probably be a close runner-up, because he was knowingly barring the children from the afterlife; the only problem is that it isn't completely explained as to why he felt that imprisoning the souls of children would help business. In one of the most recent videos, it revealed that Peter was originally an optimistic person who Jumped Off The Slippery Slope when the protagonist from FNAF 4 was bitten by Fredbear.
edited 31st Dec '15 8:07:21 AM by AustinDR
Heydritch.
I am really confused about Afton, bc I don't follow Five Nights (I found the first game incomprehensibly stupid). How did he kill six kids and keep their souls from reaching the afterlife? I'm just getting standard slasher vibes from him otherwise, and am leaning no.
edited 31st Dec '15 8:22:32 AM by LargoQuagmire
Oh, he's aware of it. You see, he disguised himself as one of the mascots of the pizzeria. He knows that the animatronics would attack other guards, but he figured that he would be safe as long as he was wearing an animatronic suit (the ghosts would confuse him as one of the animatronics, because they had forgotten who had murdered them). A quote from the killer confirms this:
"When it gets dark, they will awaken; the children's spirits will rise. They will kill you. I'll just walk out in the morning, stepping over your corpses, one by one."
Afton was suspected of the Missing Children Incident, but he couldn't be held guilty of the murders, because the bodies of the children were never found.
edited 31st Dec '15 9:07:00 AM by AustinDR
So I'm all caught up on Wolfsmund. Good lord Wolfram's a real piece of work. Lighty mentioned needing to look for those candidates who "take a flying leap." Well, Wolfram DEFINITELY qualfies. He may not have the body count of, say, Torquemada or Astaroth, but he's also only human and the joy which he performs his deeds...Anyway, here's a tweaked entry:
- Wolfsmund: Wolfram, the keeper of the titular fortress, is a handsome, gentle looking man who, despite his Faux Affably Evil manner, is a genuine sadist who has no qualms about hurting women or children. Everyone passing through Sankt Gotthard Pass
must be inspected by Wolfram, the bailiff of the Wolfsmund ("Wolf’s Maw"), who delights in mentally and physically tormenting his victims. Starting the series by having a young woman executed and her body displayed, Wolfram is responsible for many atrocities, including: torturing a boy (a teenager at most) by burning the soles of his feet, and then forcing him to stand, holding his father on his shoulders to prevent the man from being hanged; forcing a little girl and her mother to undergo a search inside their "hiding place" with tongs to see if they're hiding anything (then keeping the mother as a prisoner); participating in torture ostensibly for information but really for pleasure; and feeding the mother and younger brother of one of the only people to escape his clutches to ravenous wolves for an execution. It is revealed Wolfram led violent raids to kill civilians in the past and spared only two siblings, but only after putting out one eye each; even after they reveal themselves to Wolfram years later, he claims not to remember them. Ostensibly loyal to the Austrian Hapsburg Dukedom, Wolfram admits that his only reason is for the amusement it gives him and his greatest joy in life is to cause others pain, especially after giving them hope first. Finally, when the fortress is attacked, he flees, leaving his men to fight and die against overwhelming odds (and killing one who suggests surrendering).
edited 31st Dec '15 11:51:33 AM by ACW
Yes to Afton and yes to Heydrich
I think 'leaving his men to fight' is an incredibly...generous interpretation of such an affair.
- ElfQuest:
- Winnowill, the Big Bad of the whole saga, is an ancient elf who rules Blue Mountain via fear and manipulation. When the Wolf Riders cross her path, Winnowill has one of them tortured and repeatedly attempts to manipulate or kill them, not even leaving the children out of her schemes. Winnowill proceeds to manipulate the humans o the nearby area into attack the Wolf Riders as well. Despite her obsession with elfin purity, Winnowill is revealed to have seduced a troll named Smelt, bearing a half-breed son named Two-Edge. Murdering Smelt, Winnowill has spent years cruelly abusing her son and damaging his mind horribly. When she gets her hands on the ancient elven Palace, Winnowill also attempts to exterminate her enemies with 'impure' blood and later assists Grohmuul Djun in his brutal regime. Seemingly neutralized by her former lover Rayek trapping her soul within his own mind, Winnowill constantly attempts to drive him further into darkness or get himself killed to free her.
- Grohmuul Djun, Winnowill's brief partner, is a brutal warlord who oppresses his people and seeks to dominate all he sees. Having the architects of a special palace murdered to keep it a secret, the Djun declares himself the only true 'higher power' and makes worship of any other punishable by death. To this end, he has Winnowill mutate his hounds into monsters, first demonstrating their savagery by kicking their keeper in to be devoured. The Djun then has them hunt down those who still hold to their old faith and devour them, with any attempts at rebellion publicly executed via 'The Birds,' a giant device that rips the victim in half.
- Angrif Djun, Grohmuul's equally vile offspring, attempts to murder his own sister and murders his own father to seize control of his now weakened domain. Angrif allies with other human domains, only to betray and destroy his allies once he has achieved his goals. Attacking an innocent village, Angrif puts it to the torch while having slaves taken from the able bodied and the old, the women and the children murdered while also attempting to exterminate the elves. When he is castrated in the battle by an elf warrior, Angrif kidnaps an elf healer's former lover with the intention of torturing her to force the healer to mend him. When she escapes, Angrif devotes the remainder of his life to building a massive fleet of ships to exterminate all elves and subjugate the world, destroying all that is 'different.'
edited 31st Dec '15 11:56:35 AM by Lightysnake
Yeah, Lore proposed and should write up King Guttlekraw
That's stupid as hell. Wolfram wasn't 'shocked' or anything, he starts acting like a prick and demands they get the body of a person he killed out of his bed and then smugly tells them his lord will kill them all, but if they ransom him, he'll save them.
His screaming god will punish them is because he is horrified to realize he is not getting out of or talking his way free of this and he's breaking down upon the realization he is going to die a horrible death. There's no supernatural insinuation to that moment save for the soul of a victim possibly being seen by the hero.
edited 31st Dec '15 12:00:45 PM by Lightysnake
Oh, I know that, but that mention of local folklore was interesting...wonder if it's a Chekhov's Gun...
Here is a write up for Afton:
- Five Nights At Freddys The Silver Eyes: Dave/William Afton was the co founder of both Fredbears Family Diner and Freddy Fazbears Pizza. Unable to deal with the stress in his life, he turned to murder to relieve himself. At Fredbears, he murdered the son of his business partner Henry, despite the fact that Henry helped him start Fredbears. At Freddys, he lured five kids backstage, killed them, and stuffed their bodies inside the animatronics, causing them to become possessed by their spirits. While working as a security guard at a mall, he notices Henrys daughter Charlotte and her six friends, and decides to kill them too. He kidnaps Charlottes friend Carlton and places him in a springlock suit, gleefully telling him that if he makes one wrong move, the suit will slowly crush him to death and his spirit will be unable to pass on. He leaves Carlton to stand alone in the suit with this knowledge while he goes to kill the others. He later kills an officer and takes Charlotte hostage when the group tries to escape.

@ACW (regarding your post about the number of CMs Bleach has). I know Yhwach's on the watch list for a future decision, but Aizen should probably be on the watch list as well - for a future review of his eligibility. If The Hero is right about him, we could see a Freudian Excuse being employed once Aizen's back story and motives are fully revealed. I would treat Aizen rather cautiously for now.
edited 31st Dec '15 6:31:26 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.