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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49126: Dec 23rd 2015 at 7:42:56 AM

Just re-watched parts of Children of the Living Dead, and Randolph stated that the first zombie outbreak was released by radiation in '68, but was contained. The second outbreak, which Abbott led, was in '87, and the third was fourteen years later.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49127: Dec 23rd 2015 at 7:43:29 AM

Yeah, did we ever reach a consensus on Hunter?

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#49128: Dec 23rd 2015 at 7:46:44 AM

[up][up][up] Albert went the extra mile by torturing people to death via surgery with out anesthetic for the purposes of selling their organs and dosing them with hallucinagenic drugs. Mason doesn't do much, and the series has other C Ms like TK and Hemlock who have a lot more blood on their hands, and TK attempts to kill a little girl (if you unlock overtime mode).

edited 23rd Dec '15 7:47:22 AM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49129: Dec 23rd 2015 at 7:55:32 AM

What about shao Kahn, quan chi, Shang tsung, and shinook? They seem vile enough.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49130: Dec 23rd 2015 at 7:58:25 AM

[up]I suggest you read the previous discussions on them to find out why they didn't count.

Why so serious?
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#49131: Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:01:15 AM

I originally brought up the Starcraft 2 candidates, Amon and Duran, but I ultimately decided against doing an effort post on them. Much like my attempt at doing one from Nicol Bolas from Magic the Gathering, I felt like I didn't have a full idea of all their appearances in the Expanded Universe. I always want a 100% clear picture on a character before I go through the trouble of posting them.

P.S. I have a write-up prepared for Guttlekraw but I'm waiting for Lightysnake to do the other Elf Quest candiates so that we can get the write-ups all in at one time.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#49133: Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:19:38 AM

[up] Search "subpages clesnup,: complete monster [insert character and/or work name here]."

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#49134: Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:39:09 AM

  • Children of the Living Dead: Abbott Heyes was a vicious Serial Killer and rapist in life. Upon being murdered in prison, Abbott returned from the grave as a hyper-intelligence Flesh-Eating Zombie. Leading a horde of zombies in an attack on his home town, Abbott was forced to go into hiding after the outbreak was contained, but not before killing Deputy Hughes. Fourteen years later, Abbott resurfaces, intending to restart the outbreak. Abbott kills and infects those around him, transforming them into his new zombie horde, and leads them in a brutal assault on the town, resulting in the deaths of many innocent people. Whereas the other zombies were mindless flesh-eaters, Abbott shows clear intelligence and awareness, and sought the death of all who lived.

Why so serious?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49135: Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:43:28 AM

Lore: The EU shouldn't be relevant on Duran and Amon. The fact is they have a complete picture in the core media alone and the Starcraft EU is nowhere near as extensive as, say, Star Wars. The game gives more than enough to write them up on. It's been a real long time, so I'd certainly appreciate if you did the effortposts there.

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:13:07 AM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49136: Dec 23rd 2015 at 9:00:38 AM

We probably don't need a subpage, but we may wanna move Burgess and Daun to their correct media pages (comics and lit respectively).

edited 23rd Dec '15 9:02:05 AM by ACW

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49137: Dec 23rd 2015 at 9:43:26 AM

Is it possible to be too tragic or mentally ill to apply? Because I've seen some villains who were only disqualifies due to tragic villain.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49138: Dec 23rd 2015 at 9:44:20 AM

Yes, it's very possible to be disqualified on those grounds.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#49139: Dec 23rd 2015 at 9:54:33 AM

Do they have to have redeeming qualities for that, or can they have no redeeming qualities? Annie Wilkes and the indominus Rex were disqualified only because they were too mentally ill and indominus Rex was too tragic.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49140: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:00:32 AM

Don't know about Annie, but I think the I. Rex was disqualified on moral agency grounds (being an animal, albeit an intelligent one).

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#49141: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:00:40 AM

That and Indominus is, y'know an animal.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49142: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:11:11 AM

[up]That shows no sentience. We HAVE had animals before.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49143: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:16:35 AM

No, the Indominus is certainly sentient. It's just not crossing that line to take it into the status it needs to be.

The Jurassic Park films very clearly show raptors as both sentient and intelligent and scarily capable of adapting. The Indominus is even smarter.

Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#49144: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:24:42 AM

I think by 'sentience' he means 'near-human intelligence'.

edited 23rd Dec '15 10:24:54 AM by Camberf

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49145: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:35:32 AM

It's pretty clear she has exactly that

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49146: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:42:13 AM

Well, if she is that intelligent, would she count? Or just simply not heinous enough?

Komodin TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator from Windy Hill Zone Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
TV Tropes' Sonic Wiki Curator
#49147: Dec 23rd 2015 at 10:46:42 AM

Well, can you provide a video link of the Indominus rex showcasing her sentience/intelligence?

Experience has taught me to investigate anything that glows.
ST89 Since: Feb, 2015
#49148: Dec 23rd 2015 at 11:01:06 AM

The Indominus was considered a Tragic Monster and a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds so I think that's enough to disqualify her. Als, it's I think it's IMPOSSIBLE for an animal villain in films being a CM, no matter how sentient and intelligent it is. Koba was an exception, but he could even talk, so there's a big difference.

edited 23rd Dec '15 11:01:34 AM by ST89

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#49149: Dec 23rd 2015 at 11:07:11 AM

Sigh, no. I am not saying Indominus counts, but she very clearly has human level intelligence. She lays a complex trap at the start, recognizes the raptors and communicates with them to to get them on her side and is capable of understanding betrayal, and even tactics. She is still, however, an animal and one with a decent Freudian Excuse even while she's an Ax-Crazy lunatic killing for fun. There's a laundry list of reasons she can't count and being an animal is just one.

Koba isn't just an exception: The Apes prequels show the Apes are completely sentient of human level intellect and capable of making moral decisions. Koba's simply consumed in hatred and evil by the end

edited 23rd Dec '15 11:11:40 AM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#49150: Dec 23rd 2015 at 11:25:29 AM

BTW, Lighty, I bought Nemesis. I think that'll be like the 5th work you alone have introduced me to from this thread (Back to Brooklyn, Caliban, Chew, and Wolfsmund the others).


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