During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Ah, I can guess which one ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
BTW, would anyone mind merging Super Robot Wars with the main VG page and The Dresden Files with Literature, or should we wait and see if there are any future candidates?
Having watched and read Jojo's Bizarre Adventure actively, I really don't see Terence T. D'Arby as that heinous of a villain. Most of his heinousness comes from off-screen villainy and his defeat scene is pretty comical. Sure, he is definitely worse than most of them, but hardly on the level with the likes of J. Geil, Dio, Cioccolata etc. Unlike J. Geil, who was so vicious that he ended up being the only minor villain killed in Stardust Crusaders, D'Arby was just "retired" just like most of them.
edited 16th Dec '15 8:38:47 AM by Kookosbanaani
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do we not see the dolls? If we do, that would be enough to move it out of Offscreen Villainy.
Also, I've created Buffyverse. CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, we see the dolls, also him beating up his brother to near death. But even so, he's not as heinous as the other CM's in the series. J. Geil and Cioccolata are sadistic serial killers, the former also a serial rapist, D'Arby pretty much a man-child with obsession for video games and collecting souls. Clearly not as shocking villain as the aforementioned ones.
edited 16th Dec '15 8:46:30 AM by Kookosbanaani
Here is the current tally on whether to cut or keep Norton:
Cut(6): Lore Deluxe, Occasional Exister, Lightysnake, Hodor2, Emperors, Camberf
Keep(6): Scraggle, Ravok, Fried Warthog, Demon Duckof Doom, Austin DR, MGD 107
Undecided(1): Largo Quagmire
It's an even split so far. We can wait for more votes, but it might wind up being a tie with which I'm not sure which side would default to the winner.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Norton.
Also I got three from my Kathryn Kidman re-evaluation. Anyone else ?
edited 16th Dec '15 9:19:10 AM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
You now I'm rethinking it and leaning toward a for Norton. Because the other evil characters are really only able to operate because he lets them.
Messenger from another dimension.
I am against any character from Shawshank Redemption. I mean, Boggs Diamond's only victim is Andy who is The Hero.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Boggs is a Serial Rapist who brutalizes and rapes Andy over an extended period and why on EARTH is Andy as the hero a mitigating factor?
I'm inclined to agree on D'Arby, btw
Messenger from another dimension.
Because villains always target heroes.
Does Boggs rape anyone besides Andy on-screen?
Anywho Norton. He at least has a hand in most of the heinous actions of the movie.
No, villains try to kill heroes. A generic type of 'kill the hero' is one thing, that sure as hell doesn't mean that trying to kill them in creatively horrible ways, torturing them in extreme ways or raping them is just "eh, villains do that."
Yeah, I was suspicious about D'Arby from the start. Cut him.
Why are all the characters in Jojo named after one-hit wonders of the 80s? I am having a very hard time not laughing at this.
Btw, can we get a list of what D'Arby does on screen?
It's a Jojo thing that tons of people and powers are named after bands or singers. Dio Brando is after Ronnie James Dio, and Marlon Brando...there's a villain named J. Geil, one villain has the power Killer Queen, another has Spice Girl, the ultimate power is Stairway To Heaven...there's also Vanilla Ice and his power Cream...there are the heroes Tonpetty and Speedwagon, the second arc has a female warrior named Lisa Lisa and a woman named Suzi Q, there's Steely Dan, a twin pair of villains named Oingo and Boingo...
There's the hero Muhammad Avdol, a dog on the heroes' side named Iggy, another hero named Polnareff, an evil hag named Enya, and the villains of part 5 have the powers named Green Day, Oasis and King Crimson
edited 16th Dec '15 11:04:29 AM by Lightysnake
The numerous musical references are one of the reasons why I simply love Jojo. Not to mention how unique the series are. Guilty Gear video games also have numerous musical references.
And about D'Arby himself:
- He has trapped the souls of 15 people in dolls (all of them beaten by D'Arby himself in a game), but unlike his brother Daniel, he keeps them deliberately fully aware of their situation.
- He defeats Kakyoin and traps his soul in a doll too, intending to do same to Jotaro and Joseph.
- He gloats about an incident where he beat his brother near death after catching him flirting with his girlfriend (this is shown in a short flashback).
And that's about it. He doesn't kill anyone in his short appearance and doesn't even torture, other than mentally. In comparison to Cioccolata, who enjoys torturing his victims to death, destroying their flesh slowly and painfully with a mold he himself produces.
edited 16th Dec '15 11:28:29 AM by Kookosbanaani
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I don't know, having 15 people trapped in an And I Must Scream situation is pretty bad.
BTW, more feedback please on cutting the short examples from Complete Monster YMMV Pages? Or about whether or not to merge the Super Robot Wars and Dresden Files pages?
Given the kind of niche he occupies, I'll give a to Terrance. Sure, he doesn't physically torture his captives, but what he does instead is a downright effective and awful form of mental torture.
edited 16th Dec '15 11:31:12 AM by FriedWarthog
I'm not really sure it's a unique niche, especially given how godawful so many Jojo villains are. I mean, the villain of part 4 traps a child in a repeating time loop...
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Jojo in the slightest. I just said that he was unique in comparison to the Ciocolatta guy who was bought up.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, I just did a MASSIVE cleaning of Complete Monster YMMV Pages. It's been reduced by over 1/4 and several dozen little-context examples.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
I'm fine with cutting D'Arby. Just recently started Jo Jo, so I'm not extremely familiar with the heinous standard of the franchise as a whole, but D'Arby does seem to fall a bit short by comparison with the other's write-ups.
edited 16th Dec '15 12:40:20 PM by Ravok
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Are any of the established monsters on the same scale as D'Arby?
I'm gonna abstain from voting on Norton. I'm not decided enough to make a judgment.