During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I don't really think that would work unless it's a shared universe; we denied creation of a Nickelodeon and a Nintendo page for similar reasons.
Ah, right, him too.
Oh, and Klavice, as someone with Asperger Syndrome (similar to high-functioning autism), let me just say that it damn sure shouldn't be a disqualifier. Yeah, social interaction may be tough, but we still know basic morality. Sorry, bit of a Berserk Button for me when I see after a mass shooting that the shooter may've had Asperger's. Yeah, well, that's bullshit.
edited 17th Nov '15 11:25:12 PM by ACW
Possibly. I apologize if I went overboard there. But yeah, high-functioning autism would almost definitely not be disqualifying (now, low-fuctioning autism MIGHT be a different matter).
LD, VG's not getting terribly overcrowded compared to others: Starcraft would be 17; AniManga has 14, and TV has 15 (and will likely get two more, as I plan to give Buffyverse and Stargate verse their own subpages before doing a hard split).
BTW, Lester Turner has 5
(don't know if that included the proposer) and Ambar's lone
.
edited 18th Nov '15 5:22:09 AM by ACW
Alright, after it is now completely clear that Wells from Season 2 of The Flash is another version, we're gonna have to finally settle the thing about Earth 1 Wells, keeping tally and all.
Like I said, I never thought he qualified in the first place because of his interactions with Cisco, the Season 2 pilot gave him a Pet the Dog moment towards Barry and the newest episode even has Cisco stating that he honestly believed Wells loved him, but still had to kill him (that's how I was remembered on the matter).
Anyway, short version, I vote
, as in cut.
Please vote!
edited 18th Nov '15 9:28:18 AM by Forenperser
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% ScandinavianI say cut.
He's a great example of a character who feels bad for his evil actions, but does them anyway.
Like I think the scene where he kills Cisco
(he got better due to timey wimey shenanigans) is very illustrative. He's obviously quite sincere about caring for Cisco, but he puts his own interests over the life of Cisco/lives of everyone else.
Which means he's evil, but doesn't support him being a Complete Monster. A Complete Monster wouldn't care at all about Cisco.
edited 18th Nov '15 9:54:36 AM by Hodor2
Months ago I would've argued that they weren't disqualifying due to those qualities likely being a ruse, but after last night, I think its supposed to be clear that Thawne did care for Cisco and not want to kill him. He's definitely someone who's strongest emotion is hate and selfishness, but I'll admit it does seem like he cared for Cisco despite trying to kill him. So I'll say
to cut him.
- Lighty, now that it's been a week, shall we make that cut official that you mentioned last week?
- I'll wait 'til Saturday to make the above cut.
- If Ambar's not sure, I'll change to abstain on Lester.
- Speaking of CM, of the 5 highest bodycount Unsubs, 3 were disqualified, but what about Perotta
and mass murderer Hayman Vasher
?
- Speaking of CM, of the 5 highest bodycount Unsubs, 3 were disqualified, but what about Perotta
edited 18th Nov '15 11:02:32 AM by ACW
Thawne
Perotta has a Freudian Excuse.
I never saw the episode with the other guy ACW mentioned.
I forget how I voted on Turner first, but
due to the incredibly high heinous standard of Criminal Minds.
You mean having Abusive Parents? So did The Reaper. BTW, seems like Turner's officially a
now.
edited 18th Nov '15 11:40:26 AM by ACW
