TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#47476: Nov 17th 2015 at 10:46:14 PM

[up] I don't really think that would work unless it's a shared universe; we denied creation of a Nickelodeon and a Nintendo page for similar reasons.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47477: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:05:12 PM

BTW, last night I remembered that Remake!Miktran needs a writeup if he's been spproved.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#47478: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:07:23 PM

Did we get Exquisite Devotion?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47479: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:20:41 PM

[up] Ah, right, him too.
Oh, and Klavice, as someone with Asperger Syndrome (similar to high-functioning autism), let me just say that it damn sure shouldn't be a disqualifier. Yeah, social interaction may be tough, but we still know basic morality. Sorry, bit of a Berserk Button for me when I see after a mass shooting that the shooter may've had Asperger's. Yeah, well, that's bullshit.

edited 17th Nov '15 11:25:12 PM by ACW

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47480: Nov 17th 2015 at 11:29:52 PM

[up] I have the same condition, and, while I share your annoyance, I think Klavice used that exanple because the autism spectrum is widely known.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47481: Nov 18th 2015 at 12:03:32 AM

[up] Possibly. I apologize if I went overboard there. But yeah, high-functioning autism would almost definitely not be disqualifying (now, low-fuctioning autism MIGHT be a different matter).

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47483: Nov 18th 2015 at 5:05:19 AM

LD, VG's not getting terribly overcrowded compared to others: Starcraft would be 17; AniManga has 14, and TV has 15 (and will likely get two more, as I plan to give Buffyverse and Stargate verse their own subpages before doing a hard split).

BTW, Lester Turner has 5 [tup] (don't know if that included the proposer) and Ambar's lone [tdown].

edited 18th Nov '15 5:22:09 AM by ACW

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#47484: Nov 18th 2015 at 6:59:30 AM

I'll trust Ambar on this and mirror his down vote for Lester.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#47485: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:25:51 AM

@ ACW, I also have Aspergers Syndrome!

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47486: Nov 18th 2015 at 7:30:07 AM

[up][up] Does his ephebophilia push him over the edge?

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#47487: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:18:08 AM

I think it's safe to say that any number of people in this thread and on this site are going to be on the autism spectrum or similar ones. It's the sort of website/hobby that attracts people on the spectrum.

[up]Not in Criminal Minds. There's a lot of that going around there.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47488: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:25:41 AM

I think it's safe to say that any number of people in this thread and on this site are going to be on the autism spectrum or similar ones. It's the sort of website/hobby that attracts people on the spectrum.
I agree.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47489: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:25:54 AM

Wow, I think Criminal Minds might have the highest heinous standard for a "realistic" setting (GOT and Berserk may be higher, but aren't realistic).

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#47490: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:27:58 AM

Alright, after it is now completely clear that Wells from Season 2 of The Flash is another version, we're gonna have to finally settle the thing about Earth 1 Wells, keeping tally and all.

Like I said, I never thought he qualified in the first place because of his interactions with Cisco, the Season 2 pilot gave him a Pet the Dog moment towards Barry and the newest episode even has Cisco stating that he honestly believed Wells loved him, but still had to kill him (that's how I was remembered on the matter). Anyway, short version, I vote [tdown], as in cut.

Please vote!

edited 18th Nov '15 9:28:18 AM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#47491: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:45:24 AM

I say cut. [tdown]

He's a great example of a character who feels bad for his evil actions, but does them anyway.

Like I think the scene where he kills Cisco (he got better due to timey wimey shenanigans) is very illustrative. He's obviously quite sincere about caring for Cisco, but he puts his own interests over the life of Cisco/lives of everyone else.

Which means he's evil, but doesn't support him being a Complete Monster. A Complete Monster wouldn't care at all about Cisco.

edited 18th Nov '15 9:54:36 AM by Hodor2

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#47493: Nov 18th 2015 at 9:58:22 AM

I know I said I was going to stay out of the Reverse Flash vote, but I'm going to agree with a cut because I could possibly give off the wrong impressions by staying silent.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#47494: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:24:17 AM

Months ago I would've argued that they weren't disqualifying due to those qualities likely being a ruse, but after last night, I think its supposed to be clear that Thawne did care for Cisco and not want to kill him. He's definitely someone who's strongest emotion is hate and selfishness, but I'll admit it does seem like he cared for Cisco despite trying to kill him. So I'll say [tup] to cut him.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47495: Nov 18th 2015 at 10:33:29 AM

  • Lighty, now that it's been a week, shall we make that cut official that you mentioned last week?
  • I'll wait 'til Saturday to make the above cut.
  • If Ambar's not sure, I'll change to abstain on Lester.
    • Speaking of CM, of the 5 highest bodycount Unsubs, 3 were disqualified, but what about Perotta and mass murderer Hayman Vasher?

edited 18th Nov '15 11:02:32 AM by ACW

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#47497: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:27:03 AM

Yeah, I'll also say 'cut' on Thawne at this point.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47498: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:32:03 AM

[up][up] Done. Oh, and Do It tongue
BTW, I'm enjoying Chew, but still, what an unusual work.
Oh, and if Empowered is correct, we MAY have an issue with the second Empowered CM.

edited 18th Nov '15 11:36:32 AM by ACW

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#47499: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:35:59 AM

[tdown] Thawne

Perotta has a Freudian Excuse.

I never saw the episode with the other guy ACW mentioned.

I forget how I voted on Turner first, but [tdown] due to the incredibly high heinous standard of Criminal Minds.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#47500: Nov 18th 2015 at 11:39:03 AM

[up] You mean having Abusive Parents? So did The Reaper. BTW, seems like Turner's officially a [tdown] now.

edited 18th Nov '15 11:40:26 AM by ACW


Total posts: 326,048
Top