During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
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to everyone I missed").
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We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Although, then we have this:
- Moral Event Horizon:
- The Pied Piper ( James Skinner) crossed it when he snapped and raped then murdered a teenage girl. Afterwards, he never looked back and kept doing to to dozens more over a number of years.
- Goosebumps:
- Night of the Living Dummy series: Slappy, the main antagonist, is a ventriloquist dummy that comes to life whenever the spell that accompanies him is read aloud. He would turn his owner's family against them, which ultimately culminates in him trying to convert the family, preferably the female protagonists, into his slaves. In Bride of the Living Dummy, he held a group of children celebrating a birthday party hostage, and he threatened to murder everyone in the room if he didn't receive his bride. He orders Jillian, the preteen protagonist of the book, to be his bride, only to violently hit her when she refused. The book also revealed that Slappy was crafted from a coffin by an Evil Sorcerer who then transferred his evil influence into the dummy. Under the threat of death in Slappy's Nightmare, Slappy gets forced into performing three good deeds; however, he does contemplate killing his new owner and her family when he thought that she was picking up on him. Though it turned out to be a dream, it's made clear that he wouldn't think twice about murdering anyone when it suits his needs. In addition to this, Slappy had attempted to murder several characters throughout the saga, one notable example being in Slappy New Year in which he tried to decapitate a young boy with a pair of garden shears. Sadistic, cruel, and disturbing, Slappy struck fear in the hearts of many.
- Piano Lessons Can Be Murder: Mr. Toggle is a self-described brilliant robotician who runs a piano school that Jerry is sent to by his parents. Initially appearing to be a harmless, if eccentric figure, Toggle soon reveals himself as a particularly depraved Mad Scientist. Despite his status as a famed robotician, he couldn't make robotic hands properly, so he lures men, women, and children alike to his piano school and cuts their hands off and uses them for his experiments in hopes of creating beautiful music, all to satisfy his ego. (The TV Adaptation even implies his first victim was his mother, who ends up tormenting him to play the piano in her place forever.)
- Goosebumps Horrorland: The Menace, he was completely alive, kids died on his rides but he didn't care, due to his experiments in fear. The park was so scary, it somehow ended up in an alternate universe. Later, he found out Horrorland was made on his park, so he got contact with a horror to invite guests there so he get them to panic park, and make them bring the fear meter up so he can PP back to the normal world. It's implied he's done this before, but the previous kids got so scared they died and he simply doesn't care. He even got several other Goosebumps villains to follow him, including Slappy and King Tutten-Ra from another GBH book.
- Les Légendaires: Anathos is an Omnicidal Maniac with absolutely no code of honor. His actions include: crushing and savagely crippling the protagonists; mocking Jadina about her relationship with the now "deceased" Danael; ordering his Hellions to physically and mentally torture Tenebris for information; and creating a plague to exterminate people he wouldn't bother killing himself. Whereas Darkhell at least cared for his daughter and Skroa never went further than slapping his, Anathos killed his own Dark Mistress by blowing her head off just after pretending to forgive her defeat.
- The Last Witch Hunter: The Witch Queen, the absolute ruler of the witches, was defined by her contempt towards humanity, which she wished to destroy. Centuries ago, she created the Black Death as a means of eradicating humanity; this would go on to cause the deaths of millions of people in Europe, Kaulder's wife and daughter included. When it seemed as though Kaulder had defeated her, the Queen curses Kaulder with immortality. Years later, she was revived by Belial, and tries to unleash swarms of demonic black flies onto the populace of New York by using the inmates of the Witch Prison to complete the Chant. When one of the witches was severed from the chant, the Witch Queen compensated for this by linking Chloe, a Dream Walker, to the Chant. She also takes her time to psychologically torment Kaulder by bringing up his past guilt, and by showing him visions of a world devoid of humans.
- Reservoir Dogs: Vic Vega, also known as Mr. Blonde, despite his apparently calm and clear-headed demeanor, is a callous and psychopathic criminal who makes even his own partners-in-crime wary. A flashback during the movie reveals that Vega had a history of raping "punks" in prison. Employed for a simple bank robbery, Mr. Blonde went on a rampage when one of the tellers set off an alarm, gunning down several innocent people, an action which even horrified his fellow criminals. After being left alone with a police officer he had kidnapped after the massacre, Mr. Blonde proceeds to torture him for his own amusement, slashing his face and cutting off his ear, all while singing and dancing to "Stuck in the Middle With You" by Stealers Wheel, before dousing him in gasoline and trying to set him on fire. In a movie filled with hardened criminals, Mr. Blonde stands out as a violent and sadistic psychopath.
- Iron Man & Captain America: Heroes United: In this animated film, which unofficially takes place within the same continuity as Captain America: The First Avenger, Red Skull continues his track record of being a heartless monster. Having a penchant for Mind Rape, Red Skull brainwashes Taskmaster into becoming his slave, then orders him to capture Captain America. When several of Skull's minions are captured, Skull remotely mind-wipes them, leaving their personalities nothing more than blank slates. After capturing Captain America, Skull repeats his brainwashing process on him, turning him against his teammate, Iron Man. Skull then reveals his master plan: Infect millions of innocent people with his mind-altering super soldier serum, which will turn them into mindless zombies whose only purpose will be to assist Red Skull in his plan to Take Over the World in the name of HYDRA.
- Assassin's Creed Syndicate: Maxwell Roth is the leader of the Blighters gang on behalf of Crawford Starrick, and gunman for hire for the Templars. Unlike the Templars who believe in order and control, Roth values freedom in the form of anarchy and chaos. Resenting that Starrick thinks he can control him, Roth initially allies himself with Jacob Frye to fight Starrick's empire. Growing more disturbed by Roth, Frye severs their agreement when Roth plans to burn down one of Starrick's factories, a factory of child workers, which Roth does anyways, and Frye barely manages to save them. As revenge, Roth lures Jacob to his theater where he puts on a show, killing people on stage before ordering the theater to be burned down with the civilians inside. As he dies, Roth is asked by Jacob why he did all this and replies:
- [PROTOTYPE]: The real Alex Mercer was a cold-blooded Mad Scientist who bragged about making the Blacklight virus ten times as deadly as it already was. When asked how he felt about his work being used on human test subjects, he replied "I wasn't being paid to feel". Later, after being pursued by Blackwatch agents and cornered at Penn Station, he decided to release the Blacklight virus on Manhattan as he was gunned down, despite being aware that his own sister was in the city at the time; this final act of callousness resulted in the deaths of over 10 million people. After discovering this, the virus itself expresses disgust with Mercer's crimes.
- Captain Planet and the Planeteers: Verminous Skumm is a disgusting rat-thing whose actions are almost always portrayed in a much worse light than those of the other eco-villains. "Mind Pollution" had him peddling mind-affecting drugs to teenagers (one of whom was Linka's cousin, who died as an indirect consequence of his intoxication) just for the joy of ruining their lives and those of their friends and families. "A Formula for Hate" had him harassing a kid who's HIV positive and spread lies about AIDS just because the kid's an easy target. Another episode has him trying to force toxic food down the captured Planeteers' mouths to kill them in a needlessly and horrifically painful way. "If It's Doomsday, This Must Be Belfast" has him planting a Nuclear Bomb in Jerusalem's Temple Mount, baiting an Israeli or a Palestinian to set it off (as well as bringing nukes into The Troubles and apartheid South Africa). Overall, while the other villains are obsessed with environmental destruction for their own benefits, Skumm is a sadist who delights in hurting others for laughs.
- Barnyard: Dag is the sadistic leader of a pack of coyotes. Unlike the other coyotes who kill for food, he seems to enjoy killing his victim more than eating them. This is shown when he shows a group of chickens his chain which has severed chicken legs on it. When faced with Otis's father Ben, he murders him and then shames Otis by telling him that his father would've survived had he been there for him. He then makes a compromise with Otis that stated that he and his pack of coyotes could get a couple of animals every night, and if Otis didn't comply, Dag and his coyotes would personally slaughter everything in the farm that Otis held dear, including possibly the farmer. This deal was just a trick to keep Otis busy while he and his pack kidnap the hens as well as the chick Maddy. He then tries to spitefully eat the latter just because she called him a "meaner." Murderous and needlessly cruel, Dag is seemingly out of place in an otherwise lighthearted film.
- The Ambassador is a member of a race of Starfish Aliens called the 456 who incorporate prepubescent children into their physiology, as their bodies produce hormones that act as euphoric drugs to the 456. The children are kept as perpetually-childlike human reefers, one child shown as having been rendered hairless and immobile as a result of forty years of being used as a drug by the 456. After initial negotiations under falsely benevolent pretenses in 1965, the Ambassador returns in 2009 and bargains with the British government to take ten percent of the world's children under the threat of wiping out all humanity; to prove its power, the Ambassador unleashes a lethal virus throughout the Thames House that leads to the death of almost everyone inside, including Ianto Jones. Although only one member of the 456 is ever seen, the Ambassador shows itself to be exempt from Blue-and-Orange Morality, and expresses callous disregard for the living beings it is harvesting. The Ambassador is reflective of Torchwood's darker nature and is one of the most disgustingly evil villains to ever come out of the Whoniverse.
edited 16th Nov '15 6:33:18 AM by ACW
It looks better when it's actually on the page; for some reason quote formatting is screwy in forums. How it actually looks is here.
OK, since 5 people voted
for Lester Turner, I shall do a write up for him.
Criminal Minds: Lester Turner from "Outlaw" is an Ax-Crazy spree-kill who takes sadistic pleasure in rapping young women and forcing their friends to watch. He started this when he was 16, where he raped a 15 year old girl and made her 12 year old brother watch before attacking the boy and severely injuring him. He was sentenced to 9 years in prison, but during that time he met a fellow criminal, William Duke Mason. When his sentence was over, he partnered up with Duke and together they went began a murder spree starting with a local diner where they raped the female cashier and forced the two male workers two watch, right before killing them both and torching the place. When Duke had personal matters to attend to, Turner decided to rob a drug store for where he forced his captive watch as he was killing them off. This action was uncalled for by his partner, creating tension between the two. When they go to rob a gas station, he immediately shoots the cashier and attempted to shoot an innocent man and his son and would have succeeded if Duke didn't intervene. Duke finally had enough of Turner's action and left him. Turner's response was to track down Duke possibly to kill his. When the BAU finds Turner and Duke, Turner tries to shoot as many cops as he can before getting shoot himself. Unlike his partner Duke who has a, dark troubled past, love ones, and standards, Turner possesses none of these. Lester Turner is simply a psychotic sadist who does what he does because he enjoys it.
I also want to make some changes on a previous entry in the same show. this is my edited version.
Chriminal minds: Alex Zorgen, while not a Serial Killer himself, runs a human trafficking ring that sells women, regardless of age, to serial killers and other criminals online. In 1993, prior to creating this ring, he abducted a woman named Donna Goldhard, and kept her as a Sex Slave, repeatedly raping and torturing her for the next 22 years. From one of those rapes came a son, named Kyle. In the season premiere "X," Alex, along with his family, kidnaps a woman and uses his website to auction her off to a serial killer. As the season progresses, Alex has Kyle stalk the BAU's newest member, Kate Callahan, by posing as an attractive high school senior online to gain the trust of her niece Meg, and her friend, who are both 14 years old. He sends his wife and son to kidnap them in the season finale "Hunt," but Kyle only catches Meg. For that Alex murders Kyle, his own son, without any remorse and simply moves on with his plan to sell Meg online to a serial killer. He was later arrested by the BAU, but Meg has already been sold. When they ask him where Meg’s captor is keeping her, he refuses to cooperate and just taunts Kate about the things her captor is going to do to her. Having no regard for anyone, including his own family, and only caring about selling women to his online human trafficking ring and making money out of it, Alex Zorgen is a twisted sociopath and among the worst the BAU had to face.
What do you guys think?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffSo, I was considering it, and I think the old Star Wars Bantam era has a villain worth discussing. Granted from...one of the worst novels in the entire setting, but what the hey.
His name is Hethrir, the Procurator of Justice of the Empire and the master of the Empire Reborn movement.
Who Is He?
Though Hethrir appears human, he's actually a member of the near-human species known Firrerreo, of the planet Firrerre. When he was young, Hethrir and his lover Rillao were selected by Darth Vader for their Force sensitivity. Hethrir excelled in the training was named the Procurator of Justice, master of the Empire's justice system. In this role, Hethrir would enforce the Empire's brutal laws, especially towards aliens.
Upon the Empire's fall, Hethrir fled into hiding, using the massive wealth he had amassed to set himself up. Not content with lying low, Hethrir dreamed of creating a new Emprie with himself as the ruler, but knew he needed greater mastery of the Force than he currently possessed. Stumbling upon an interdimensional being named Waru, Hethrir made a dark bargain: he would feed Waru living beings, including force sensitive children to allow Waru the power to return home. In return, Waru would gift Hethrir with omnipotent power. Hethrir created a slaving operation for children, in which he hoped to find special children with a unique bond to the Force to feed to Waru, all while forming his own military and Dark Jedi forces.
What's He Done?
When he was young, Hethrir decided to prove himself to his Imperial masters in the human-centric Empire. For this purpose, Hethrir had thousands of his own species abducted and placed aboard imperial freighters, before stranding millions upon millions more back on Firrereo. Hethrir then had the ships above release a lethal virus on Firrereo, wiping out all life on it: the way it works? To eat its way through the bodies of its victims while they were still alive, producing great pain and anguish in those afflicted. The surviving Firrereo were put in suspended animation until the day Hethrir decided to awaken them-possibly a thousand years later (the guy really thinks he's gonna live that long, all powerful), just so he could awaken them and pose as a God who saved them, to have the last remnants of his species deify and worship him.
Now, obviously, this didn't turn out like he wanted, so Hethrir took the children and either sold them into slavery or indoctrinated them to his Dark Jedi corps. Oh, Hethrir's girlfriend Rillao kind of objected to this. She and Hethrir fought and Hethrir defeated her. To punish her for defying him, he shut her in a device on the same ships. Except it wasn't suspended animation, but a 'web' like structure that subjected Rillao to endless torture while she was alive and conscious for it. Rillao would suffer there for years until the solos would free her.
Hethrir also took the infant child he had fathered with Rillao, Tigris, intending Tigris to be his greatest warrior and heir. Only it turned out despite his parentage, Tigris had no aptitude for the Force. Disgusted, Hethrir concealed the fact he was Tigris's father from him and raised him as a servant. He has no compunction trying to kill Tigris at the novel's climax, nor Rillao when she intervenes.
Using his slave trade, Hethrir build up an impressive operation. Now, Hethrir, when he found children, would make them undergo a test in the Force to see if they had aptitude. Now, because he's a total dick Hethrir would use his own force powers to block the strength of the children if they committed the cardinal sin of not being human, resulting in them sold into slavery. He also established a fake cult aorund Waru where people would be placed within Waru's gelatinous masses for healing. In reality, Waru may heal, but he was also draining them of their energy, resulting in more than a few deaths. Hethrir also sent his chief warrior and leader of his dark Jedi army Desann to destroy the Jedi Temple...this failed, and Hethrir found himself running out of kids to give to Waru. He switched to abducting them from Republic worlds instead. Lucky for him, he captured the three Solo children and decided he'd feed them to Waru. Hethrir attempted to sacrifice the five year old Anakin Solo to Waru, and when this failed, told Waru to eat Luke instead. The sacrifice was prevented and Waru, lonely and dying, lashed out at Hethrir, devouring him instead and using his force pwoers to return himself to his home
Hethrir has nothing resembling an excuse for his actions, and I think he meets the heinous standard handily. the guy is Would Hurt a Child personified in Star Wars, and the fact he ends up as the Bigger Bad of the Jedi Outcast game gives him a much higher attempted bodycount. the book he's in sucks but really, Hethrir's one of the most evil minor Dark Jedi around. Keep.
The cult is formed around Waru. They genuinely think he's healing them. And to be fair, Waru is in a lot of instances, but he's also taking some of their energy, and in the case of a force sensitive, he'll take more. Occasionally, he takes too much and kills them.
Waru isn't really...evil. He's an alien being who just wants to go home...he doesn't really want to hurt anyone, but he's lonely he's dying stuck in our galaxy, and he's so different from humans he doesn't see them on the same level. Eating a few here and there isn't really something he can see as morally wrong, and he only eats a comparatively small amount. If he had a choice in the matter, Waru'd be in his home dimension and not harm anyone.
edited 14th Nov '15 1:33:18 PM by Lightysnake
Oh, he knows Waru is killing some. He just couldn't care less. The kids he plans to feed to him though, he knows aren't walking out.
OH, and the Genocide of Firrereo is also another thing to add to Palpatine's resume as well. While it was Hethrir's idea and he carried it out, Palpatine was just "Awesome" upon hearing about it and approving it
edited 14th Nov '15 1:47:37 PM by Lightysnake
Oh, well, yeah, that goes without saying. I'll confirm my
. We can add that to Palpatine's entry (or just mention it for the writeup).
BTW, out of curiosity, where do things stand with Yhwach, Joie and whoever else from Toriko, and any current qualifiers from The Seven Deadly Sins?
edited 14th Nov '15 1:53:07 PM by ACW

From The Killing subpage:
Could be a keep, but we need more information on what the killers do and how they affect the heinous standard. Sounds like he's the only rapist in the series, though.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"