During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Speaking of Zelda, it's been 2+ weeks since The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes came out, and the Big Bad might be worse than Majora, Zant, and Yuga combined.
edited 10th Nov '15 5:48:06 AM by ACW
Ok, it's been two weeks since it came out. Recently I've been recovering from some bad head trauma by reading Atlas Shrugged and I think I'm ready to do an effortpost again. This time from Assassin's Creed Syndicate: I present the Big Bad of the game, Crawford Starrick. Please read the entire post before commenting.
Who Is He?
Starrick is the recently appointed Grandmaster of the Templar Order in London, who seek to steal freedom from the people to impose a strict order (so you know they're bad guys.) Starrick is a member of high society and one of the wealthiest men in London. Starrick is hunting for the Shroud, an artifact from the Precursor Civilization that will allow him to dominate London, while he is opposed by the Frye twins, Jacob and Evie, who seek to cut off his power base. As a powerful capitalist, Starrick has the potential to be the greatest man in the cit, but succumbs to the twisted disease of evil that infects so many.
What Does He Do?
Starrick kills multiple assassins in order to dominate the people of London, but it's only in the latter half of the game his true villainy becomes evident. After Jacob's reckless antics end up collapsing England's currency, Starrick decides it's time to implement his evil plans. Instead of introducing his own currency (a proper free market solution), Starrick opts to do the worst thing possible: giving his employees a raise.
Now, we know the evils of altruism and charity, so by choosing such a thing, Starrick is literally enslaving the souls of all who work for him. Rather than downsizing his company and doing his workers a favor by letting them make their own way in the world (and if they are virtuous and true, they will succeed, or die gloriously in the attempt), he opts to make slaves of them, and even adds in a very chilling moment he would do this to all of London if he were able.
Even worse is his treatment of his cousin Pearl. Starrick treats her as a valued lieutenant in the organization after she turns down his proposal of marriage (Victorians, mirite?) Now, we know that a True Capitalist inspires only one emotion and desire within a women. Yet instead of ignoring her seeming protests and fulfilling her by making her his, Starrick respects her wishes, for his sick delight in watching her suffer internally. A pox on the dastard.
It sees we should discuss redeeming qualities: we all know those who shun the way of Truth have none. Starrick utilizes poorly regulated child labor in his factories, giving the would-be parasites a chance to experience the joy of work so that they may one day make something of themselves (True capitalists do not succumb to things like industrial accidents or lung disease)...unfortunately, given his earlier remarks, Starrick is doing it for the benefit of the children rather to enrich himself. At the end of the story, Starrick decides to wipe out the nobility and royalty of London, so he may 'liberate' England and provide for them in a new order While it may be admirable to remove the ranks of those who have achieved by birth rather than deed, Starrick is only doing it for the 'good' of the people. IE: enslaving their souls, and then he tries to kill Jacob and Evie who embody true freedom, meaning that Starrick is an irredeemable monster who deserves death.
He casually obliterates the heinous standard. In a series so devoted to freedom and choosing life, Crawford Starrick chooses death.
easy keeper. ACW, make sure you put James Taggart, George Bailey, Mr. Deeds, Ebenezer Scrooge (as of his Face–Heel Turn) and Bill Gates on my to-do list.
edited 10th Nov '15 6:40:27 AM by Lightysnake
@47147: A POX! A pox on him and all his bloodline! Let us forever transcribe his name into the annals of Tvtropes History so no Video Game maker will ever forge such a tasteless, black-hearted demon of a character to plague our sensibilities again! I mean the guy from Human Centipede 3 was one thing! But this?! This is just tasteless!
edited 10th Nov '15 6:45:27 AM by OccasionalExister
Referring to my previous suggestions: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1885#47122
I was about to go on a tirade before I realied that Starrick's effortpost was a joke. What I'm more pressed in wondering is if Assassins Creed's Jack the Ripper is also going to be a vampire masterminding werewolf attacks.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."LOL at Lighty's "suggestion".
RE that Veran, I'm going to have to echo Nrjxll. I don't want to go so far as to say I would never support a proposal by Klavice barring independently verification, but...
With that particular example, I'm questioning the direct consequences of the poisoning shown in the game as opposed to reading into what would happen if someone did something similar in the real world. Because it sounds like the ocean poisoning is treated abstractly as like a magical corruption that causes sickness and the hero needs to purify. It doesn't sound like the game gets into a "scientific" aspect of it affecting (let alone killing) people who drink from the water (and who drinks from oceans anyway?)
Also, while as per Tarkin, a minion can count, she doesn't even sound like the main minion- she's like the equivalent to someone ranked below Tarkin and carrying out his orders (which he in turn gets from someone above him).
edited 10th Nov '15 8:20:00 AM by Hodor2
Unsure on Starrick. He's easily heinous enough (I'll be honest, his effortpost made me heave at his depravity), but I feel like, deep down, he legitimately hates Pearl, and he's just hiding it with his dere-dere personality. And as we all know, genuinely hating someone and not caring for them at all is a huge disqualifier for this trope.
Quite frankly, Lighty, I am shocked at how you seemed to have purposefully overlooked this potentialy disqualifying factor. SMH.
edited 10th Nov '15 8:20:42 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Ligty, I don't think Jack will be a vampire. I think he will be a regular Serial Killer who will likely qualify.
Do you seriously consider Starrick heinous? He is an Anti-Villain clearly from an effort-post.

I have to say that in light of your track record, the overly emotive posts and excessive 'whataboutism' do make me kind of suspicious here. It's likely unfair, but I think I'm going to abstain on Veran unless someone else provides a second opinion, because I'm not sure I can keep bias out of my decision otherwise.