During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll say
on Mason, but no to his henchmen do to their of characterization. It's kind of like how Dennis Crimm counted because he's the mastermind but his henchman Red doesn't because Red doesn't have personal characterization unlike Dennis himself.
Also I say allow fanfics only if they are a real story and not just your typical dark fic of rape/torture. I'm saying this because I'm writing a fanfiction story and have two CM antagonists in mind - although that's only because they are already C Ms in canon so that's probably irrelevant.
edited 21st Oct '15 3:59:34 PM by Beast
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."@ACW: Rephrase: Cannibal Holocaust has more plot than "sicko does sick shit For the Evulz."
Re: Debonair: If she's Made of Evil, and has no moral agency, cut her.
Mason
Re: There Will Be Brawl: Works like that are why I included an exception for A Us.
While it's not really important to any ongoing topic, I would say Freddy Krueger is the most evil Complete Monster ever.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.![]()
I can see why but I still think Mick Taylor and Legends Palpatine are worse. The guys both killed their mothers. Mick condemned a lot of people to Fate Worse than Death (head on a spike) while Palpatine basically committed genoicide against planets! Yeah, nobody is worse than these two.
But I can see you would consider Freddy Krueger as the worst.
edited 21st Oct '15 5:11:23 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!So, this seems to be where we stand on the creepypasta examples right now:
Keep: Five Nights at Freddy's: Hidden Lore, NES Godzilla Creepypasta, Sonic.exe, 1999, The Toadman Saga.
Cut: The Woman to Eat the Children, Wallflower, Sally Play With Me, Patient 88, and Dating Game.
That leaves Tails Doll, Alice Killer, and Beware The Good Samaritan.
The Tails Doll is from many different pastas, and the entry seems to describe the creature from all the different pastas as a whole rather than giving a specific example. Not sure if that is okay.
Austin DR is the one who suggested the Alice Killer story in the first place, so maybe he can tell us if he thinks it fits.
As the person who proposed BTGS, I will state that it at least has more of a plot than some of the other examples, but I am not entirely sure if it's enough. To summarize: The pasta centers around Bobby Fields and his gang of hoodlums. Bobby and his gang have been terrorizing the neighborhood for years. The gang is beating a homeless man to death at a shelter when the mysterious Nazar appears. Nazar scares the gang off by claiming he called the police, and takes the homeless man inside to treat his wounds. While walking home, Nazar is ambushed by Bobby and his gang. A Humanoid Abomination called The Judge appears and kills the whole gang except for Bobby, who is kidnapped by Nazar. Bobby wakes up at Nazar's home, and Nazar scolds him for all the things he did. Nazar is about to let Bobby go when The Judge appears and reminds Nazar about the time Bobby raped four underage girls, which convinces Nazar to kill Bobby. I will let you guys decide if that is enough of a plot.
jjjJust a question. Should we count You Seem Acquainted With Those Doors as a creepypasta.
edited 21st Oct '15 6:15:49 PM by randomtroper89
Tails Doll has been bugging me for a while, though that's by and large Depending on the Writer (the most common version is the brutal nightmare), I can see keeping the Alice Killer because that one isn't an example that revels in how "brutal" it can be and I'm not sure on Bobby Fields.
I'll wait for Lightysnake to weigh in on the moral agency issues because he appears to be contradicting himself, but Debonair I was meaning to bring up. On that subject, on the Savage Messiah page...
- Roch "Moses" Thériault is an utter sociopath who has a harem of wives and children all begging to him. The Dissonant Serenity when he casually dismembers one of his wives is eerie. Roch abuses all the members of his cult in horrific ways (Abusive Parents doesn't even begin to define it) and yet gets away with it because he is just that manipulative. And he convinces the third-party researchers that come to view his cult that he's innocent.
...This entry is very, very poorly written. Could we get someone who's seen the film to rewrite this?
edited 21st Oct '15 6:30:41 PM by Scraggle
Now, time for write-ups.
King of Thorn: Zeus, head of security for Venus Gate Labs, is a chaos-loving maniac who gleefully participates in the labs' twisted human experiments to harness the power of Medusa. When Shizuku's powers go out of control, Zeus ensures said powers kill as many people as possible. Zeus then proceeds to turn himself into data, download part of his code into Shizuku, manipulate her powers to murder everyone on the island the Lab is located, then releases an army of monsters onto the Earth to destroy anything they come across. After his old rival, Marco Owens, confronts him, Zeus has him beaten to death and reveals he plans to turn most of humanity into his own "Zeus Race", and then kill any humans left. Zeus then captures Kasumi and forces her to watch as he painfully transforms her friends, one of which is a child, into more Zeus Race beasts.
Tales from Earthsea: Left on the brink of death after a failed attempt to Take Over the World, Lord Cob began searching for immortality to enable him to exact revenge. Running a slave trade that deals in children in the present, Cob begins tampering with the forces of the planet in his quest for eternal life, throwing the world into chaos. After capturing Tenar, Sparrowhawk's Love Interest, Cob mind-controls his apprentice, Arren, into attacking Sparrowhawk. Cob then tries to kill Sparrowhawk and Tenar, and, when Arren thwarts this attempt, Cob takes Arren's friend, Therru, as a hostage, then strangles her to death before his eyes, mocking him all the way.
edited 21st Oct '15 7:06:55 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Re: Most evil CM: The most evil one I've seen would have to be Gregpr Clegane.
While we're on this "most evil CM" tangent, the one who always comes to mind for me is Lord Naritsugu.
Most evil Monster... Legends Palpatine. Star Wars is a big, big, franchise, and Palpatine's committed pretty much every goddamned crime in the book. Special mention has to go to Morgoth, Unicron, Bryagh/Thrax (if not just how jarring they are compared to the setting) and Vukmir. Like Lighty said below, it's hard to pick just one.
edited 21st Oct '15 9:13:02 PM by Scraggle
While discussing the most evil CM I would have to agree that Palpatine is probably the worst. The man was simply evil incarnate, he knows it and he loves being the most evil man in the Galaxy.
"King of the beasts, Father."
But Red Skull deserves a nod as well, you have to one evil guy to make The Joker be disgusted with you.
@bobg: The Alice Killer was a nihilistic serial killer whose main motivation for his killing spree was that he saw death as being the ultimate joy in life, and he wanted to spread his views to others. He only appears once in the story via a security camera, but his existence contributes to the suspense of the story. Much like with what Scraggle said about him, the story actually doesn't try to be edgy nor does it try to glamorize death and torture. The Alice Killer is actually pretty tame compared to the likes of the other "examples."
Oh, man, I can never pick just one most evil CM. Honorable mentions to Koran Mori, Shira.. .
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I think we can measure it by its own standards, especially since we're cutting down on the Torture Porn; the Alice Killer is still heinous enough by their own standards. I vouch for a keep.
So we're really talking this subject, huh?
I'm not sure about "most evil", but in terms of who immediately comes to mind when I think of the trope, well...when I first heard of this trope's existence and saw what it was all about, my thought was basically "this trope could practically be named The Frieza.'
edited 21st Oct '15 9:29:08 PM by ANewMan
Re: Most evil CM
Palpatine. Always Palpatine. Literally the only crime the guy hasn't gleefully committed is rape. At least, not physically...
The Joker and Red Skull in general are close seconds. There's a reason these guys have earned the nickname, "The Unholy Trinity."
Though Freeza's a pretty big prick, too...
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

I didn't say 'allow only works with a page' I said 'allow only fanfics and creepypastas specifically with a page'.