During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Moving this here from Yu-Gi-Oh! ARC-V for folks to discuss.
- Complete Monster: Sergey Volkov. Think Yami Marik taken Up To Eleven crossed with Boommer/Greiger's size and you have Sergey. When he duels Yuzu, he reveals himself to be the first Combat Sadomasochist since Yubel, and though he remains normal for most of the duel, right when Yuzu thinks she's about to win, he brutally defeats her, all the while gloating about how defeating her when she's so sure of her victory is so much more satisfying than a simple win. And he finishes her off by ramming her off he D-Wheel, sending her flying through a goddamn building. Once he gets back to the stadium, he's giggling the entire time.
I'll note for my part, he fails the heinous standard — while he was undeniably more brutal and psychotic in his duel than anyone else so far, the actions of Academia and their agents includes interdimensional warfare for the apparent sake of conquest. That's a high bar I think.
edited 20th Oct '15 4:54:13 PM by DrakeClawfang
Alright, finished rewatching Tales from Earthsea, and I'm going to assume the villain hasn't been discussed, so here goes. SPOILERS!
Who is he?
Lord Cob is a sorcerer and the Big Bad of the film.
What has he done?
Before the film, Cob tampered with the souls of the undead and tried to use them to Take Over the World, but was defeated by his nemesis, Sparrowhawk, and exiled from the land.
Though left alive by Sparrowhawk, Cob's brush with death at the mages' hands left him lusting for immortality. Cob then began tampering with the forces of "Balance" in the world in his attempts to become immortal, and this throws the planet completely out of wack.
Throughout the film, we see the results of Cob's tampering, with forests dying, plagues spreading, and people in general becoming more wicked.
In the present, Cob runs a slave trade, of which children are a part of.
When his Dragon, Hare, loses a couple of the slaves, Cob uses his magic to begin crushing the man's heart, though Hare manages to talk his way out by pointing out it was Sparrowhawk who saved the captives. Cob spares him, but orders him to capture Sparrowhawk or its his head.
When Hare finds Sparrowhawks' Love Interest, Tenar, Cob has her kidnapped as bait.
Cob then captures Arren, Sparrowhawk's young apprentice, and mind controls him into trying to kill Sparrowhawk when he comes to rescue Tenar.
Sparrowhawk quietly snaps Arren out of it, but Cob manages to capture him.
A young girl Arren befriended, Therru, overhears Hare stating that once Sparrowhawk and Tenar are dead, Cob plans to sell Arren into slavery.
On top of Cob's catle, Cob prepares to throw Sparrowhawk and Tenar off the castle to their deaths, but a rejuvenated Arren shows up and begs Cob to stop. Cob responds by trying to crush the boy's heart with his magic.
Arren slices off Cob's hand, wielding the staff that controls his magic, and Cob's immortality starts to wear off, revealing him to be a grotesque old man.
Cob starts to lose it at this point and grabs Therru to use as a hostage. Arren tries to talk Cob down, but Cob quickly refuses and tries to kill him, and, with Arren watching while hanging from a ledge, Cob strangles Therru to death, and mocks Arren about it afterwards.
Therru is revealed to have immortality (somehow), turns into a dragon (somehow), and kills Cob, ending his reign of terror and setting the world back into balance.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
When he's preparing to toss Tenar and Sparrowhawk off the castle, he tauntingly says to Tenar, "Your lover's about to take a little journey. Why don't you send him off properly?" And "allows" her to tell him goodbye. I, personally, saw the thing as a huge jerk move because Teran is practically in tears during the situation, and it seems like he was just rubbing salt in the wound by forcing the stoic Sparrowhawk to say goodbye to his crying Love Interest. He was still going to kill the girl anyway, just so you know.
He's after immortality because he is scared of dying and wants to rule the world as Archmage forever.
This fear comes into play during his aforementioned breakdown, with him whining things like "I don't want to die" after Arren tries to talk him down when he's holding Therru hostage (You know, right before he strangles the kid to death). And, when he's being burned alive by Dragon!Therru, he screams "I want to live!" before dying.
Heinousness?
Tried to Take Over the World, is throwing the world into compete chaos with his search for immortality, runs a slave trade that deals in children, tries to kill the hero and his Love Interest, (seemingly) kills a young girl while forcing her best friend to watch, and mind-controls a boy into attacking his father-figure.
With a lust for immortality about as sympathetic as Freeza's, and a "redeeming" moment that amounts to "Haha, I'm forcing you to confront your Love Interest with the reality of your own death. By the way, I'm going to force her to watch you die then kill her as well", I'm going
, but, as always, it's up to you guys.
Yep, thumbs up to Cob
So, I was watching more Shaw Brothers and Kung Fu films, and I have a pair of examples. The first is the main villain from the film Masked Avengers Lin Yungzhi, leader of the Masked warriors who form the cult at the heart of the film. Now, at the film's start, the group has been ravaging the countryside, killing, pillaging and raping at will. A group of warriors led by Chi San Yung have been investigating them and are picked off one by one. At the inn they stay at, one of San Yung's men befriends the cook, Kao, who turns out to be the group's former second in command and identifies the nobleman Lin Yungzhi as the group's leader...
Who Is He?
a nobleman who founded the masked warriors as a group of trained, paid assassins to demonstrate his martial prowess, Yungzhi recruited two others to serve as his second and third in command of the organization, the second being Kao. Now, Yungzhi leads his forces to begin targeting and slaughtering martial artists, ostensibly under the guise of assassinations by rivals. In reality, though, Yungzhi's only goal is the fun of wanton destruction. He branches out to attacking and murdering civilians with his men, combined with torturing the victims in near ritual sacrifices with the group's trademark trident weapons.
Kao finally realizes what the group has become when Yungzhi has hostages taken, tortures and impales the man and has his sister raped by his men. Kao says this is not what they stand for and Yungzhi attempts to kill him rather than let him leave. In the present, Yungzhi personally dispatches one of the investigators. When another inspector named Cheng befriends Kao and deduces the identities of the three chiefs, Yungzhi leads a group effort that murders him as well.
Leading us to the final battle where Yungzhi and his men kill all but two of the good guys. What's really impressive is the horrible ways in which they do, with dishonorable booby traps...including spraying acid on one luckless SOB.
Masked Avengers is one of the darker Shaw brothers films I've seen with no comedic elements. Really, all of the three chiefs of the Masked clan are awful, but as leader, founder and final decision maker, I think Yungzhi is the keeper of them with lots of innocents dead, torture and rape.
Offhand, it is kind of hilarious how Kao's objection is "Look, killing a bunch of martial artists is perfectly moral if we're getting PAID for it! Doing it for fun is EVIL!"
edited 20th Oct '15 8:23:51 PM by Lightysnake
I apparently made a mistake on my original write up for Lheu Brenin from Lord of the Rings Online. I falsely remembered Lheu as his title and Brenin as his actual name, but the reverse is actually correct. Oops. Here is a modified write up that needs to be put up, hopefully in this weeks batch. It's already on the Lord of the Rings Online YMMV page.
Complete Monster: Lheu Brenin from "Volume 3: Allies of the King" is the treacherous chieftain of the Falcon Clan of Dunland and the greatest threat faced by the Grey Company in their journey to find Aragorn. Starting out as a reasonable man, the Brenin quickly shows his true colors when sells out the Rangers to Saruman. Keeping most of the Grey Company captive in his own village, he sends the player and Lothrandir to Isengard as trophies and slaves for Saruman. The player eventually escapes and rescues the Rangers and forces Lheu and his clan to retreat beneath the mountains. In order to flee, the Brenin sends his loyal clansmen, including his only daughter, on a suicide mission to distract the Rangers. During their exile, Lheu has anyone that questions his decisions and any he deems weak thrown into pits to be devoured by monsters in the mountains. The player, alongside Gimli, finally face him beneath Helm's Deep where he reveals his plans. As a tribute to Saruman, Lheu Brenin plans on sneaking into the Glittering Caves and murdering the defenseless women and children of Rohan. The Brenin spends the entire battle deriding the last of his loyal followers as being weak as they are cut down, only to beg for his life when he is finally defeated. Unlike most servants of the Enemy who are direct products of Morgoth's corruption, Lheu Brenin is a mere mortal man who proves that even one of Illuvatar's children can be an irredeemable monster.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Now, the second from the seminal film Shaolin Temple, one of Jet Li's earliest.
The villain and Big Bad Wang Shichong, who becomes The Emperor.
Who Is He? What's He Do?
A brutal warlord and conqueror, Wang Shichong treacherously launches a bloody coup that installs himself as the ruler of the land. He forces his enemies and the people into brutal labor camps where we see backbreaking labor, bloody executions, tortured slaves and the corpses of many people strewn all over as Shichong watches.
Jet Li's character, Jue Yuan is one such slave. He then sees his father, the heroic martial artist "Leg" Chan make a stand against the oppressors when he sees an officer beating a slave. This being a Kung Fu film, Wang Shichong leaps down and fights him personally promising to cripple him. When he wins though? He rips out Leg's throat with his bare hands. Jue Yan attacks Shichong, only to be wounded badly and barely escapes with his life, taking refuge at a Shaolin temple.
Jue Yan trains at the temple, becoming a monk, but cannot let his desire to kill the Emperor go. Now, when the monks finally fight and kill a patrol of the Emperor's men, he marches to the Temple for a reckoning. the kind old Abbot begs for the Emperor to spare the temple and the monks. The Emperor agrees to make the Abbot bear the punishment and has him placed on a pyre. He then kills ssveral other top monks and says if they tell him where the traitors are, he'll spare the Abbot.
He doesn't. The Abbot, at the end, beseeches the monks to destroy the Emperor and his men. The Emperor simply attempts to massacre all the monks before the fighters join the fight. Jue Yue and Shichong fight personally and Jue Yan kills him.
Shichong is one of the most vile antagonists I have seen in a Kung Fu film. Massive body count, forced slavery, attempted massacres and brutality all around. Simply an engine of ambition and cruelty.
May I suggest Morris Bellamy from Stephen King's Finders Keepers?
Who is he? A fanatical fan of the author John Rothstein who murders his idol as the main character of his novel 'sells out' and goes to work in advertising, stealing a safe full of money and unfinished manuscripts from his apartment, hiding them in his back garden before being arrested for an unrelated rape.
What does he do? Aside from the aforementioned theft/murder/rape, once Bellamy is paroled he murders his old partner in crime and attempts to kill 17 year old Pete Saubers, the kid who found the money and manuscripts, before driving to the boy's house, (admittedly non-fatally) shooting Mrs. Saubers in the head before kidnapping Pete's 14 year old sister Tina.
Any excuse? Not really. His father left him and his mother when he was a kid, but he doesn't earn any sympathy for that as he dedicates his life to making his mother's life a living misery. He was raped in Juvenile Hall, but that doesn't earn him much sympathy either as he refused to take responsibility for his actions, blaming his mother for disliking his favourite series of books, which he somehow blames for him getting arrested.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave.-
He seems bad, and might count on his own, but considering King's works are in the same universe, not sure he stacks up with even the other human villains (Norman and Rennie).
- I requested Tao be cut.
- Lighty, I'll let you know.
- Lore, it'll go with this week's batch.
Cob.
Yungzhi (Kao's objection notwithstanding, the fact that Yungzhi murders innocents is enough to qualify him).
Wang Shichong I THINK, but I have a few questions: How many innocents are killed? Does he lie about saying he'll spare the abbot if he tells him what he wants to know?
edited 21st Oct '15 5:43:14 AM by ACW

Yeah because Goku responding by calling her a monster and throwing her car down with no serious injury received by it after her clumsy driving got him hit is a great excuse to try to kill said child.