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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46001: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:01:17 AM

[up][up] OK, I'm confused now. Mark me as "Abstaining."

edited 20th Oct '15 11:01:52 AM by DemonDuckofDoom

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#46002: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:15:23 AM

Thoughts on this for the One Piece quote? From Doffy.

  • Curse your "bloodlines" then...!! You people were born as lowly trash, destined to be controlled!! You humans and I are completely different!

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#46003: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:19:29 AM

@46011: Really? I thought they killed more people with less resources and for slightly more sadistic reasons. I mean, I don't believe they count for this trope, but I thought they were still more heinous.

edited 20th Oct '15 11:20:10 AM by OccasionalExister

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#46004: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:39:08 AM

Honestly...Tao isn't the worst normal human around. How about Commander Red, who's willing to cause a gigantic war, kill countless people just so he can wish for himself to be tall (something that makes his second in command gun him down in disgust for all the soldiers Red has sacrificed for such petty reasons). That, and there's the serial killers in the Buu saga.

Anyways, the worst thing Tao does is kill a tailor for charging him money and then refusing his offer to kill someone for him. That and killing Goku's friend, but really...even counting the original series, Tao also seems on generally good terms with his brother the Crane Master, and has a smaller body count than some of the Red Ribbon Army's wanton nastiness

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#46005: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:41:23 AM

[tdown]Tao.

[down] On him being a CM, I mean.

edited 20th Oct '15 12:00:34 PM by AustinDR

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#46006: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:43:53 AM

[up] As in you [tdown] Tao for being cut, or for being a CM?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#46007: Oct 20th 2015 at 11:55:06 AM

At that rate, it almost seems as if Red himself should count...
Anyway, I think I support cutting Tao now too. Fortunately the subpage will still have 5, so that's not an issue.
Speaking of subpages, I think I'll request the swapping of the One Piece stuff sometime this weekend.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#46009: Oct 20th 2015 at 1:01:10 PM

Definite [tdown] Tao now, if he's not even the worst character in Dragon Ball on its own.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#46011: Oct 20th 2015 at 1:50:41 PM

Because despite his resources, he's entirely less heinous than other villains and is more pathetic and comedic at times

SuperSaiyaMan Since: Jun, 2009
#46012: Oct 20th 2015 at 2:33:54 PM

Not to mention Tao seemed to have a bit of fondness for Tenshinhan and Chaozu, as well as his brother.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#46013: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:23:45 PM

[tdown] to Tao. He's a dick, but Dragon Ball is filled with villains of equal or lower caliber to him who have committed worse crimes than him.

edited 20th Oct '15 3:23:59 PM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#46014: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:39:31 PM

So shall we cut Tao now, or wait a bit?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#46015: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:43:22 PM

Probably cut him.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#46016: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:46:00 PM

I forgot that Tao seemed pretty close with his brother, yeah. Fun fact: recent Word of God from Toriyama implies the two died offscreen together after one of their shady deals went sour.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#46017: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:48:11 PM

[tdown]to Tao. Even if compared to the other human villains of the original series he isn't that much more heinous than some of the other villains. General Blue and Commander Red killed their own men over extremely minor things like picking their nose or failing to dodge a cat. Even that one-shot mook villain Hasky, as mentioned before tried to blow up an amusement park with children inside.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#46018: Oct 20th 2015 at 3:49:08 PM

I'll give it 'till tomorrow morning. If no compelling counterargument has been made, Tao will go.
BTW, Lighty, I just bought Caliban and Wolfsmund.
[up] And there's a good counterargument for how Tao Would Hurt a Child but doesn't count. Goodness, DB has a high heinous standard.

edited 20th Oct '15 3:54:28 PM by ACW

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#46019: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:02:31 PM

We've got a villain who's literally head of a genocide corporation. So yeah, pretty high.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#46020: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:11:28 PM

[up] Wait, who is this (and why doesn't he count?)?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#46022: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:20:34 PM

Yeah, I always questioned Tao's inclusion. I say cut him.

And thanks to everyone who answered my question.

Finally, before I potentially effortpost him, has Lord Cob from Tales From Earthsea been discussed? I'm preparing to rewatch the film, and I remember him being pretty bad. I searched his name in the search function, and though I couldn't find anything, it seems unlikely to me that the villain of a Ghibli film hasn't been brought up as of yet.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#46023: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:31:33 PM

[up][up][up][up]Almost every villain in DB, DBZ and DBGT history has tried (and some have succeeded) in hurting or killing a child. Even Bulma who's a hero shot Kid Goku with a gun intending to kill him at the very start of the series.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#46024: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:35:11 PM

Yeah, Freeza is a businessman first and a tyrant second, and a warrior last. His organization wipes out all life on planets, then sells them to the highest bidder.

Let me know how you like Caliban and wolfsmund...Wolfsmund's story starts peaking around volume 3.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#46025: Oct 20th 2015 at 4:38:01 PM

[up][up] That was self defense though, as Goku had just attacked her car while she was inside it thinking it was a monster.

edited 20th Oct '15 4:39:08 PM by bobg

jjj

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