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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43977: Sep 3rd 2015 at 10:07:46 AM

@ACW: Just added the Renegades villains to the YMMV.

About the G.I. Joe subpage, if and when it gets an image, would the Krieger one I posted last page work? If not, I can scope out some more.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43978: Sep 3rd 2015 at 10:19:42 AM

The Krieger one might work; I'm curious if there are any other options.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43979: Sep 3rd 2015 at 11:12:31 AM

Ugh, I've found two more pics, but apparently the Image Uploader is on the fritz. I'll post them as soon as the Uploader is fixed.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43980: Sep 3rd 2015 at 12:29:34 PM

fmv, could you please add Petrie (how is that a Meaningful Name BTW?) to here? Once those are ready to go, I'll tweak 'em all at once (ditto for Monster Pokemon Fan Works Reformat).

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#43981: Sep 3rd 2015 at 1:29:29 PM

Anymore votes for Ghostface ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#43983: Sep 3rd 2015 at 1:40:17 PM

[tup] To the Beast too.

Actually i reading 5 Elementos for give a concensus for Desangrador/Dr. Ebola and maybe other villains.

Watch me destroying my country
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43984: Sep 3rd 2015 at 2:54:57 PM

Was this ever approved?

War For Cybertron

Even if this was approved (which I doubt it was,) the War/Fall of Cybertron games are connected to Transformers: Prime, in which, as any watcher of the show knows, Megatron pulls a Heel-Face Turn. So, I'm guessing I should cut this.

edited 3rd Sep '15 2:56:27 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43985: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:09:19 PM

[up] One easy way to tell it wasn't approved: Zero Context Example. Cut it and link to the thread.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#43986: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:17:25 PM

I still can't comfortably vote on the Beast, but Immortality Immorality is a good point, so I won't vote either way on him.

Any more opinions on Sedessa?

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43987: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:17:45 PM

The example hasn't been touched in 2 years, so I doubt anyone's going to take it here, but it's been cut.

Anymore opinions on The Beast?

edited 3rd Sep '15 3:18:31 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#43988: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:18:58 PM

Do we know how long things like him usually live? I think that's pertinent to whether we're dealing with surviving or prolonging.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#43989: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:32:10 PM

[up] His lifespan is never outright stated, but it's heavily implied he's been doing this for a long time.

Also, something I forgot to mention in the effortpost, after Wirt turns down the offer to become the new "lantern-bearer," this happens:

The Beast: "You see, Woodsman? All those who perish here will become trees for the lantern. Cut them (the boys) down with your axe!

There is no implication that The Beast is telling the truth here, seeing as before, Greg only started to turn when he began to abandon hope of surviving. So, basically, he's trying to kill two children when it wouldn't help him to "survive" at all.

So yeah, I think that's a pretty good indicator that his evil goes beyond "surviving."

edited 3rd Sep '15 3:47:58 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#43990: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:45:31 PM

Don't remember if I voted or the beast when he was first brought up but to be safe [tup]

Also after a recent episode of Carmilla the Series Carmilla's mother is Back from the Dead, so I may another go when the seasons done. The show still is shot in the view point, but throughout the season, we are getting more evidence for Offscreen Villainy.

Also four [tup] for MT Vs Ghostface against zero [tdown], which usually a green light for me.

  • Scream: TV Series: Ghostface/ Piper Shaw from season one is copycatting the killing spree of Brandon James. After killing Nina and her boyfriend Tyler, and later killing depressed student Rachel, making it look like a suicide. Constantly tormenting her half sister Emma Duvall, via texts and phone calls, while being friendly and helpful to her face, Ghostface targets her friends for no reason other than to hurt her. Ghostface tries to force Emma to choose between killing two of her friends, and ends up killing Riley. Later Ghostface has Will kidnapped and later set up in a death trap to trick Emma into triggering. Eventually framing Mr. Branson, Ghostface tortures Sheriff Hudson on a live camera, before leaving him in to be killed in a trap like Will before him. When Ghostface's identity is finally revealed, Piper reveals her jealously for her sisters life, and her plan to kill Emma infront of their mother Maggie, before killing Maggie slowly.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#43991: Sep 3rd 2015 at 3:54:06 PM

[up] Could you please add to the YMMV page? I guess I'll do it Saturday.

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#43992: Sep 3rd 2015 at 4:25:13 PM

[tup] Ghostface, [tup] the Beast (whose desire for eternal life really seems as sympathetic as Peter Pan's or Freeza's).

edited 3rd Sep '15 4:27:28 PM by ANewMan

PostalDude47 I regret nothing! from Paradise, AZ Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
I regret nothing!
#43993: Sep 3rd 2015 at 5:58:04 PM

I'd like to bring up Xavier Chavez from Saw II. He's one of the participants in the "nerve gas house" test, and he's the only villain in the franchise without a single redeeming quality. Before being captured by Jigsaw, he was a drug dealer who was sent to jail after being framed by Detective Matthews for a crime he doesn't commit. While that may sound like it'd give him a mitigating factor, it really doesn't. While Jigsaw is obviously the Big Bad of the franchise, for this particular movie, he serves as more of an overarching villain. Xavier actually comes closer to fulfilling the main antagonist role, by actually providing a direct threat. He spends the whole movie acting like an utterly reprehensible psychopath. His crimes include murdering one of the other participants (after said participant had told him that he had enemies on the outside who would go after his family if they could not find him, meaning that Xavier knowingly jeopardized the safety of some innocent people and didn't care), leaving at least one other to die in her own trap when he could have easily rescued her, and throwing Amanda into a pit filled with syringes meant for him. While, if memory serves, he doesn't attempt to murder Daniel or Amanda until after he learns that Daniel is Detective Matthews' son, there's really no reason to believe that he wouldn't have done so anyway. Additionally, this only gives him justification for trying to kill Daniel. There was still no real reason for him to try to kill Amanda. While heinousness may be an issue, I feel that Xavier still qualifies. Jigsaw and his apprentices appear in more movies than him, and have more crimes to their names as a result, but they also have more resources. Xavier is the only villain in the Saw franchise who is not allied with Jigsaw in some way, and given the fact that he is one of Jigsaw's test subjects, he isn't exactly able to be as villainous as they are. I think that, given his role in the movie, he's definitely evil enough.

The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine.
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#43994: Sep 3rd 2015 at 6:17:46 PM

ACW, add the write up? Plus, Petrie is in reference to a petri dish, as he's very primal and the lowest form of anything biological (figuratively).

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#43995: Sep 3rd 2015 at 6:42:40 PM

We already discussed Xavier Chavez. Xavier fails the heinous standard.

jjj
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#43996: Sep 3rd 2015 at 7:35:46 PM

[tup] Ghostface.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Maiko2853 Since: Sep, 2011
#43998: Sep 3rd 2015 at 8:11:11 PM

I send my nomination to Felix [tup] from Red vs. Blue. He’s been repeatedly shown to be the most evil villain in the entire show. Unlike many of the other antagonists, he has no excuse or justification for his actions, he's just a cruel, fully willing murderous sociopath of the highest caliber and I personally believe Felix has more than earned his stay as an entry on the complete monster page.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#43999: Sep 3rd 2015 at 8:41:39 PM

I will give Ghostface and the Beast a [tup].

Someone wrote an entry on the DC Universe Online YMMV page that said the player character can choose to be a Complete Monster, but that is clearly not an example of this trope:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/DCUniverseOnline

I have not played this game, but since Brainiac is the main villain of it, he may be better candidate then the player character.

edited 3rd Sep '15 8:45:00 PM by Overlord

Loekman3 from Indonesia Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: Abstaining
#44000: Sep 3rd 2015 at 9:18:32 PM

Alright, time to prepare a write-up for Fei Wang:

  • Tsubasa -RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE-: Fei Wang Reed is an Artificial Human that is born from Clow Reed's unconcious desire to resurrect Yuuko, thus he desires to bring Yuuko back to life. However, in his attempts to accomplish this, he deliberately ruined the lives of millions of people across multiple dimensions including Fai's curse and Kurogane's hometown. When he first appeared to Syaoran in Clow Country, Fei Wang implanted a death seal on Sakura on her 7th birthday which will either kill her on her 14th birthday or force Syaoran to broke the taboo by rewinding 7 years back and makes his wish possible. Once he is forced to do the latter, he abducted Syaoran and clones him in order to have him find Sakura's memory feathers that will be scattered into multiple dimensions. From then on, he manipulates the movements of Clone Syaoran and his new-found friends as they gather the feathers until their confrontation where his intentions for Syaoran to collect the feathers is to gain a map between dimensions withing Sakura's body in hopes of being able accomplish his goal. Having no remorse for all the people and minions he sacrificed or the dimensions he crumbles, Fei Wang's desire to bring back Yuuko is not because he cares about her but because he wants to prove that he is better than Clow.

There we had it, a draft for my write-up of Fei Wang. If I left out major atrocities, had a poor grammar, or my text is too long, make sure to reply to me.

Once the outcome has been set, I am going to try and do an effort post on Sanctus from Devil May Cry.


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