During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
OK, so apparently, Teridax is going to have to be added to the actual Complete Monster page before I'm able to post quotes about/from him.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Usually I'm skeptical of Complete Monsters who simply want to destroy the world because that's a very generic goal. If they want to destroy it to remake it in their image (Zanza, Dimentio, Andross, etc) then I'm not as skeptical. That's why I was against Teridax, I thought he hit all the other points but his goal felt like he was just mindlessly destroying the universe for the evulz or something. Now I see he has a much more developed personality and even had a choice in the matter, something most GDV do not. Reminds me almost of Gala, the fal'Cie from Final Fantasy Type-0, also my last accepted example, where he seemed generic in concept, but he really had a well fleshed out personality and wanted to destroy the universe for imperfections for example, only this guy had several eras to develop while Gala only had one game.
Do you think FF 15 might have a monster villain? Since it's part of the Fabula Nova Chrysalis lore at least according to what we know, I imagine the villain will be another fal'Cie. Will they be well intentioned but unsympathetic Knight Templar like Barthandelus (I'm sorry, I just can't sympathize with Bart's goal, he seems too much like Emperor Palpatine with a somewhat well intentioned goal) or a true monster like Gala? Only time will tell. And what about the new Fire Emblem game? Recently, it looked as though they were trying to give their villains more redeeming qualities (at least in Awakening). Will If do the same?
Also, NEW example proposing time!
Toddler Titans (from Teen Titans Go), especially Beast Boy and Cyborg, for anally raping a lot of people's childhood, refusing to show the only potentially interesting character in the show (Slade) using a ratings trap, singing an ungodly annoying song about waffles, thinking all girls have cooties and even going as far as to give cooties to the girls, being lethally stupid to the point Patrick Star looks intelligent, and doing gross things in the bathroom.
Note: This last paragraph is a joke.
edited 19th Aug '15 3:20:25 PM by Klavice
You know I was wondering if you guys did any Mortal Kombat examples? I not a fan of if nor I ever played any of their games, but I know it is very popular among people and since Bionical wasn't mentioned here until recently, it has got me asking about MK
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffThere's probably not enough Onscreen Villainy for MK. I actually think a character was proposed a while back though.
And the heinous standard is even worse if we don't take canon into account (didn't Raiden destroy humanity in one of his endings or something?). ![]()
Though we COULD have all of them. 5 characters for a series spanning 10+ games and over 2 decades isn't unreasonable.
edited 19th Aug '15 3:50:56 PM by ACW
Literally the only one I can see counting is Shinnok, a genuine Omnicidal Maniac.
No one in MK qualifies. Everyone can be a heartless asswipe to some extent, even the so called heroes. It's like having a monster in Grand Theft Auto or God of War. It just ain't happening. It's like the Soul Series. The story isn't developed enough to have actual heroes as many of the heroes are heavily flawed (especially in SCV, where the heroes kill innocents just because they might be Malfested.)
And yeah, the heinous standard is absurdly high and as said before, the heroes do some pretty dickish things too, making it very Black-and-Grey Morality. Simply attempting to destroy a universe probably wouldn't be enough honestly.
Also should we re-discuss Dickson in that case. Having watched Chuggaaconroy's playthrough of the game, he does show some distress when Dunban almost dies and he thinks of Shulk as an equal and worthy opponent, which I don't think a Complete Monster can. If anything, Complete Monsters should hold nothing but contempt for others, and not feel a grudging respect. Although that could be a facade like pretty much everything else, it's kind of vague.
Geez, I didn't see that on the wiki. Good find!
edited 19th Aug '15 4:01:29 PM by Klavice
Actually, GTA DOES have a CM in Donald Love.
And Worthy Opponent being a disqualifier would open up an enormous can of worms.
edited 19th Aug '15 4:03:20 PM by ACW
I find the premise of MK to be so absurd — hold a Kumite for the fate of the planet — that any CM candidate would fail the laugh test.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Also, God of War I think everyone is equally horrible (except for a few characters, but even they have their asshole moments) but Ares and Kratos stand out. As long as Ares doesn't do anything worse than Kratos (which is doubtful considering Kratos spat all over the MEH) no one in God of War can qualify. Same with Mortal Kombat and the Soul series. The heroes are just as bad as the villains in many of their endings they destroy villages, worlds, and wipe out humanity. Siegfried is a bad offender because he did various awful things before he got ahold of Soul Edge, like pillage and rape villages with his crew and kill his father. Then in his Soul Calibur IV ending, he stops time giving everyone eternal life but they can't move. Mitsurugi and Taki massacred entire armies too, so the heinous standard is pretty high and almost every character has kicked the dog at some point in their life.
![]()
You might be on to something. I believe Voldemort thought of Harry as a Worthy Opponent even though he has no other redeeming qualities. It just shows how much of a Blood Knight the character is.
edited 19th Aug '15 4:09:17 PM by Klavice
Well even so, Dickson more or less just respects the Monados power and tried to claim it for himself a few times. I don't think you can disqualify someone based on the fact they like the weapon the hero uses. Xehanort at one point called the Keyblade a marvelous weapon but he didn't give a damn about Sora, Ventus, etc.
Well, Sherlock has Moriarty and Holmes as worthy opponents. Anime & Manga has Dio Brando andHellsing's Major.
Yeah, since they're such a common occurence, I guess the heinoussness standard wouldn't be extremely affected.
Though you have to be admit, if some of the Fatalities that are treated as a common occurence in MK were used by a villain in another franchise, it would be enough to warrant said character this thread's discussion.
edited 19th Aug '15 4:39:50 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!On Dickson, I happened to be watching some cutscenes of Xenoblade today, and there's something worth mentioning about his death
. As he's dying, he sort of starts mumbling to himself about Shulk, nothing that would disqualify him, mostly just that he doesn't want to give him the 'satisfaction of victory', but it does flash quickly to a scene of when he found Shulk in the mountains, and he says "See ya, kid". I'm not saying that this is a disqualifier, but it does seem clear to me that the writers intended us to be left with some ambiguity about whether Dickson had Become The Mask on some level and cared at all for Shulk. I'm aware of everything that he did previous, like shooting Shulk in the back, but I thought that this should be mentioned if it hasn't been. I couldn't find the original effort post.
edited 19th Aug '15 4:53:37 PM by Camberf
Just added Teridax to BIONICLE
EDIT: Dang it! Ok, serious noob question. How do you link to a page's YMMV? It's like the one thing I haven't been able to figure out on this website.
edited 19th Aug '15 6:28:07 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

Thanks for adding the entries to the YMMV pages. This makes things much easier for me
.
Also, since Selfish Evil is now a disambig, I removed the potholes on the YMMV pages and requested the same for the CM pages.