During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll also work on an effort post of Eredin Breacc Glas, King of the Wild Hunt. In the third Witcher game you'd be forgiven for thinking Eredin is a Generic Doomsday Villain, but when you look at the Witcher Saga all together, including the books?
edited 2nd Jul '15 3:45:24 PM by Lightysnake
I'll tweak Maegor, and clean up Aerys II. Shall we create a new folder for other works which Maegor can go in, since it's more than likely Telltale's Game of Thrones!Ramsay will count?
I don't see a need for a new page entirely. They can go on the generic ASOIAF page, I think.
Btw, Morgenthaler:
- All New Ghost Rider: Eli Morrow was brought up and voted a keep.
- Dead Of Summer: Keep Alan Stone
- The Punisher Purgatory: Sounds like a potential keep.
- Les Legendaires: Anathos was approved a while ago. It was clarified he chose to be what he is, so no moral agency problems
- Guardians of the Galaxy: Magus was approved
- Texhnolyze: Possible keeps, but never seen
- Tears to Tiara: Possible keep there.
- Shin Mazinger Zero: Ok, this one I know. Cut.
- Phi Brain: Wasn't this a cut a while ago?
- Martian Successor nadesico: Kusakabe's an easy keeper.
- Magico: Possible Keep.
- Madan no Ou: Not a high heinous standard, Torbalan could make it...the main villain Ganelon is a better candidate from what I know, though.
- Kyo Kara Maoh: Belar sounds a keeper.
- Worm: Jack slash was voted a keep. We just need a better writeup
- Rise of Atlantis: I think the author himself did this entry. We said yes, but we never got a full writeup for the main page.
- Old Kingdom: Ambar did this one LONG ago.
- The Magicians: Possible keeps. On my reading list
- Kate Daniels: Sounds like a keeper
- Hexwood: Soudns like a keeper
- Bioshock: Rapture: it's Frank Fontaine. Keep.
- Gaunt's Ghosts: Lilaj Cuu has been discussed many times. Shaoken, is Worlin bad enough?
- Farside Trilogy: Elder Quaie sounds bad enough to keep.
- The Chronoliths: Oh, yes, Adam is a keeper.
- Oh, I know they're going on Monster.A Song Of Ice And Fire; I just mean folder-wise.
- As for Magus, he needs a more detailed, cleaner entry.
- For the Phi Brain entry, that was when I was going through the AniManga ones, and dumped it there for now. I don't know if there's Heel–Face Door-Slam or if he's a Joke Villain.
edited 2nd Jul '15 5:02:47 PM by ACW
@Lightysnake Are you still planning on doing an effort post on Emile Dufrainse from Splinter Cell: Double Agent? If you're busy, I can do it since I still own the game.
Speaking of monsters in stealth games, I was still considering doing an effort post on Edward Wade from Hitman: Absolution but was worried about the heinous standard of the work being too high for anyone to be a monster. Wade is basically a really old Chaka from Black Lagoon, but the game series stars an assassin who kills asshole victims l so I'm worried about that issue.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Well, let's see an effort post on the Hitman guy. It's possible we good be dealing with Black-and-Gray Morality ala Punisher.
I don't own Pandora Tomorrow so that's not really possible unless you want me to go on second hand information.
Also, I guess I should make sure Edward Wade meets the baseline heinous standard for the trope. Does ordering your men to slaughter an orphanage full of nuns to get to a single sick patient/target pass the baseline for discussion?
edited 2nd Jul '15 6:23:44 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.@ Lighty: you told me via PM to remind you in the thread to write up Manfroy.
That's a rather brief description for Albert Balleau. But meh, seems like he fits the bill.
Also I was browsing The Sopranos the other day and noticed that Richie Aprile was listed as a CM. Was this already approved or did someone else post him? The guy's a Jerkass and everything, but he doesn't seem worse than a majority of the other mobsters. He doesn't even kill anyone or manipulate anyone into getting killed.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Hmm...yeah, Richie Aprile may be a cut if he does nothing like hat at all, particularly when he has to compete with Tony and Christopher, never mind Phil Leotardo. One entry down, I'd also move to strike Tullius from Spartacus: Blood and Sand for insufficient heinousness (only one murder).
Lore, would you handle Dufraisne? I'll try to refresh my memory on the Pandora Tomorrow ones..
Here's a new, condensed Manfloy:
- Bishop Manfloy, Dark Priest and leader of the Loputo Sect, pends years patiently preparing the way for the return of the dark god Loputo. Creating a massive war by means of assassination and manipulation, Manfloy initiates the chaos necessary for his plans. To create Loputo's vessel, Manfloy kidnaps the wife of the hero Sigurd, Deirdre, cruelly and gleefully erasing all her memories of her beloved husband and son and placing her for his pawn Alvis to find, fall in love with and marry despite the fact she is his unknown half-sister. With his goal achieved, Manfloy awakens Loputo in Deirdre's son Julius and sets about constructing a nightmarish dictatorship where children are sacrificed and any who resist are massacred. Manfloy even murders his own son in law and drives his daughter into madness as well as exerts mind control over Julius's twin sister Julia to make her kill her beloved friends with nothing less than sadistic relish. A manipulative priest of a Religion of Evil who seeks to enact an endless regime of nightmarish suffering for the sole reason that he can, Manfloy sticks out as the worst in the entire holy War.
Question about Diavolo being CM though. The original write up for Cioccolata said that even the Big Bad Diavolo was disgusted by his actions, so wouldn't that be a redeeming point for Diavolo? (Haven't gotten to Part V yet so I'm not sure)
Also, has Kronos from Percy Jackson and the Olympians been discussed for CM yet?
edited 3rd Jul '15 7:37:32 AM by Awesomekid42
I'll take care of that.
- BTW, it looks like some of the Fire Emblem entries need a bit of work with Word Cruft and such, so I've created Fire Emblem Monster.
- If anyone has a good quote, that'd be good too.
- Also, I think for ASOIAF, the folders can go under !!Main Works, while Maegor and others can go under !!Others.
edited 3rd Jul '15 11:21:23 AM by ACW
Just got back from Inside Out, and I can corroborate there's nobody even remotely resembling a CM therein. Heck, there's only two characters even remotely resembling villains. The first is Anger, who is admittedly The Heavy because, not to spoil too much, the film's biggest conflict is on him, but as a personified emotion his morality is decidedly Blue and Orange and he just wants the best for the human he's part of (a girl named Riley). The second is Jangles the birthday party clown, who lives in Riley's mind as her worst fear. He causes a bit of chaos but, he's a fear, he can't help but be scary and destructive because that's how Riley perceives him. We even see the real Jangles (and his emotions) during a credits gag, and he's just a normal guy.
I suspect nobody will ever propose anyone from this movie, but given that we've had such winners as a Dora the Explorer character and a mean old lady who popped a kid's ball come up before, I don't want to take any chances.
I'm a bit busy this weekend due to 4th of July. I'll have an effort post on Edward Wade from Hitman: Absolution probably on Monday. Emile Dufrainse will likely be later in the week since I need to replay Double Agent.
edited 3rd Jul '15 8:47:54 PM by LoreDeluxe
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

Balleau sounds pretty cheesy, but he seems to qualify. Why not?